The Next Day

[swordofdestiny]

Totally agree with Simon and Baht. That individual is on my Foe list. Five posts from him. He speaks for himself ONLY.

There are many reason why Dougie should continue to stay. One troll doesn't matter.

I went back and found the Trauma Therapy thread. Quite the doozy wasn't it?

[karnsculpture]

A lot of people are now avoiding the forums and groups because of arguments like this, but there are other issues too. The tour cancellation, Mick Karn's passing and Richard's success have all changed fandom, as has social networking and YouTube. There are now far more discussions going on on Facebook and YouTube regarding Japan/Sylvian, lots of new fans. Collectors are contributing to Discogs and chatting live rather than through boards like this one.

There's no getting away from the fact though that Manafon and the recycling of material that's gone on has had an impact and I've taken parts in debates over drinks. In real life it's a lot easier to discuss these things face to face than on boards where you never really know who you are talking to.

I'd say a lot of female fans i know have not connected with much of Sylvian's recent work. I don't know why this is, I've asked a few and have received various answers - some (like me) see him differently post-"Japan & Self Existence", others say there's a lack of tunes, or that he sounds tired. It's the male fans who tend to get more from the recent releases.

[inkinthewell]

I'd say a lot of female fans i know have not connected with much of Sylvian's recent work.

True. This forum used to be filled with girls, but they've all gone away and moved to Facebook & similar. I think that's because here the focus is on David's new musical direction, which leaves no space for nostalgia/romanticism.
But I must say I was ready to bet that all the talking about the "emperor's new clothes", where the emperor = David, would make them all swarm back.

[Chad]

eh... there's just nothing to talk about guys ...female or otherwise. Dead office letters from people trying to get excited about something that frankly isn't that exciting. What is there something like 20 posts per month here? if that? Dont kid yourself, facebook is no better.

The thing is we all know he's got something better to give. He's just hanging in the wrong circles. And what happened to Steve? Has he parted ways with Samadahi? Why? Why would he stay?

[inkinthewell]

eh... there's just nothing to talk about guys ...female or otherwise. Dead office letters from people trying to get excited about something that frankly isn't that exciting. What is there something like 20 posts per month here? if that? Dont kid yourself, facebook is no better.
The thing is we all know he's got something better to give. He's just hanging in the wrong circles. And what happened to Steve? Has he parted ways with Samadahi? Why? Why would he stay?

Yes, there is certainly nothing to talk about: David's last proper album is in fact Manafon, released in the year of Our Lord 2009, and many of us have had our say on that (positive, negative and indifferent) so there shouldn't be much of relevance to say anymore. Since Manafon we've had odd bits and pieces and reworkings, which, whether we've liked them or not, give us no clue to what will be coming next, hence the low number of posts per month (haven't counted them myself, but I'll accept your guess as a correct one).
So I agree with you: until there is some consistent news about the next proper release, there's nothing to be excited about. Unlike you, though, I don't see anybody excited about anything (if we except the lyrics/poems/essays book with artwork by Chris Biggs).
And when did Steve part ways with Samadhi? His website is still linked to it, and I got news about his download only tracks through Samadhi.

[Simonp]

Chad - who are you, what exactly did you join this forum for? 6 posts in and you have contributed nothing but negativity. If your one aim in joining the forums was to slag off Sylvian's most recent work - go elsewhere eh? It's boring, you're boring. So many people have left the forums NOT because they don't like Sylvian's work, they've left because of dickheads like you causing nothing but arguments.

If you're a genuine poster fine, but I get the feeling you are just hear to troll and piss people off

[Chad]

6 posts... How about 33 years?

Keep telling yourself that Simon... And when David finally does something worth getting excited about it you'll see a difference around here. For now it'll just be the 5 or 6 of you talking about Bowies new record. LOL...

[Mainzy]

It is a bit amusing that you apologize for not meaning to cause offense, then go on to explain your intent was to express that others are in some sense of denial which impairs their judgement and renders them incapable of determining the worth of a song.

I honestly didn’t mean to cause offence,(still not sure how I did) and would not want anyone to leave a forum because of one of my comments (which are by no means as bad as Chads )

It however, seem acceptable to deem my slightly different view of things as wrong or twisted, (that was your smiley by the way)and not allow me to state my point.

I am beginning to feel that I cannot do right from wrong here so will concede to your superior knowledge and vocabulary, (some very big words there mate) and will post no more on this thread, if at all.

[swordofdestiny]

:-) It is a bit amusing that you apologize for not meaning to cause offense, then go on to explain your intent was to express that others are in some sense of denial which impairs their judgement and renders them incapable of determining the worth of a song.

I honestly didn’t mean to cause offence,(still not sure how I did) and would not want anyone to leave a forum because of one of my comments (which are by no means as bad as Chads )

It however, seem acceptable to deem my slightly different view of things as wrong or twisted, (that was your smiley by the way)and not allow me to state my point.

I am beginning to feel that I cannot do right from wrong here so will concede to your superior knowledge and vocabulary, (some very big words there mate) and will post no more on this thread, if at all.

Nobody needs to leave a music forum. Mainzy, you should stay too. I think we all need a little quiet time and listen to whatever we enjoy. Today that means no Sylvian. I can manage a few days without him ( ) and this forum.

[Blemished]

The trouble with the extreme, negative arguments is that they lead absolutely nowhere. It's scorched-earth argument - I'm right, you're wrong - and if you don't see you're wrong, you must be a liar. It's the kind of thing that did for the pioneers list and I hope we can avoid it here. If we all think the same, there'd be no room for discussion at all.

In any case, David's not listening or interested. If people stop buying his work, I guess he'd just move on. I don't think he's the sort of person who could be blackmailed into releasing certain kinds of music.

Paul raised interesting points - about recycling, the loss of female fans, the impact of Mick's book...

Personally, I don't understand the issue around Mick's book. It's one - strongly held - point of view. It's a partial side of a story and I doubt it's the whole story. I don't think that one 'side' is right and the other wrong. For example, I understand why David didn't want to use 'Japan' as the title for the RTC album, but don't understand why he excluded the others from the mixing process. I'm sure we all know that people who achieve fame are driven and difficult. People are complex, and I'm sure that's particularly true for DS. But is that a reason to like his music less? Not for me; others differ I guess.

The recycling is an issue. I thought it valid for the The Only Daughter and DITW - not so for Wandermude. I would hope that we are in sight of new material sooner rather than later.

As for female fans, I'm not one so don't know. But when my wife and I listened to Toshi Nakamura play in NY the audience was very mixed, so I wouldn't automatically assume that female fans are less comfortable with more difficult, abstract material. But maybe that is an issue - the harder edges, the move away from romanticism. Interesting question.

[kitaj]

good points, Blemished.

as for the Mick vs David issue, well, the music world is full of once-best-friends-now-estranged dynamics - the Spinal Tap movie itself depicted it so well. how often in your own life your best friend is your opposite, the kind of opposite (foil, missing piece - sometimes even Jung's 'animus' archetype) that attracts? fast forward a couple of years, and the same forces that drew you together now turned out to have conspired at your friendship's demise.

my sense is, the two of them were clearly completing each other until a certain point in time - Mick the propulsive one on the outside, and fragile on the inside type, David the shy one on the outside, and hard-as-nails on the inside. David's true nature, I would say, is the inside one, which from 'Blemish' onwards has fully come to the outside, maturity/old age allowing for the protective (i.e. romanticising) shell to fall away. so, some are feeling the old David, some not and prefer the young one.

[Chad]

If I remember right the RTC mixing incident was money related. the funds had all dried up during the recording sessions. DS used his Japan royalty checks to cover the mixing expenses. Because of this he felt like it was his prerogative to go at it alone. Unfortunately the rest of the band felt otherwise. More short sided thinking on Davids part. NO tour to follow. Nothing but hatred afterwards.

The one that really pisses me off is the Nine Horses dis. I mean the one decent project he had on the dashboard was destroyed in complete disrespect for the other artists involved. Now he continues to puderfuck around with these novice tag alongs. What a fricken waste... Oh yeah lets not forget about that Phil Collins duet... LOL

Maybe he should just bag it and just work on his poetry now. Trophies 3 sounds exciting right ...?

NOT

[inkinthewell]

Trophies 3 sounds exciting right ...?

Trophies 3 came out 10 years ago.
Just saying...

[Slope]

The one that really pisses me off is the Nine Horses dis. I mean the one decent project he had on the dashboard was destroyed in complete disrespect for the other artists involved.

What's this about? The most recent NH related interviews I have seen with Friedman and Jansen contain references to how much they like the project - the only possible negatives being Friedmans comments that he preferred people to record in the same room, and the NH material was provided for him in programmed form.

I'd be interested to see a link to material which suggests otherwise.

[Chad]

Uh... ink... you may want to check that. trophies 3 is coming out in the fall. It will include both 1 & 2 as well as newer materials.

Slope I dont have a link, just a memory of the discussions at the time. The best way to describe it was that the whole NineH project was under negotiation with DS as the hold out. Once again he had to flex the control muscle instead just going along and being PART of something meaningful to others. It's no wonder Steve has checked out.

I do agree with whoever said D has become a grouchy ole man. One of these days he'll look up a realise that he's all by himself... bitchin at the dog ...