David Sylvian - Manafon

From Brilliant Trees through Died In The Wool...

Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby Foales Arishes on Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:26 pm

baht habit wrote:How very intriguing. A new fan working their way backwards from Manafon? That is going to be a unique perspective.
May I be bold enough to recommend that you begin with all of Sylvian's SamadhiSound product first? So therefore, before you delve into any releases on the Virgin label, you could first acquire When Loud Weather Buffeted Naoshima (2007), the Nine Horses releases Money For All (2007) and Snow Borne Sorrow (2005), in addition to Blemish (2003).
The Virgin material in reverse order:
Everything And Nothing (2000) Approaching Silence (1999) Dead Bees On A Cake (1999) Damage (1994) The First Day (1993) Rain Tree Crow (1991) Ember Glance - The Permanence Of Memory (1991) Flux + Mutability (1989) Plight And Premonition (1988) Secrets Of The Beehive (1987) Gone To Earth (1986) Alchemy - An Index Of Possibilities (1985) Brilliant Trees (1984)

Actually, my belief is that there won't be all that much disappointment as you first discover the creative spirit and flawless execution which has been consistent throughout all of Sylvian's career.


You can be as bold as you like - I appreciate you taking the time to give me your recommendations, I will investigate further and look forward to hearing, what is to me, new material.

After Manafon - Blemish and maybe 'Loud Weather' (not heard any of that yet) excluded, I fear the work may sound a little 'ordinary' if I may be so bold :wink: - which is the only reason I may be disappointed, but having said that I do not exclusively enjoy challenging work – I even enjoy a bit of Coldplay sometimes :oops: – so I’m sure I will find lots to enjoy in his more commercial work...I love his voice in all I have heard so far, and find his skill in writing highly creative, melodic pieces really satisfying. I even find Manafon to be a highly melodic work, with sections sticking in my head and going round-and-round...

One thing is certain, there is a lot to discover here and that's never a bad thing.
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby neonico on Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:45 pm

Foales Arishes wrote:
baht habit wrote:How very intriguing. A new fan working their way backwards from Manafon? That is going to be a unique perspective.
May I be bold enough to recommend that you begin with all of Sylvian's SamadhiSound product first? So therefore, before you delve into any releases on the Virgin label, you could first acquire When Loud Weather Buffeted Naoshima (2007), the Nine Horses releases Money For All (2007) and Snow Borne Sorrow (2005), in addition to Blemish (2003).
The Virgin material in reverse order:
Everything And Nothing (2000) Approaching Silence (1999) Dead Bees On A Cake (1999) Damage (1994) The First Day (1993) Rain Tree Crow (1991) Ember Glance - The Permanence Of Memory (1991) Flux + Mutability (1989) Plight And Premonition (1988) Secrets Of The Beehive (1987) Gone To Earth (1986) Alchemy - An Index Of Possibilities (1985) Brilliant Trees (1984)

Actually, my belief is that there won't be all that much disappointment as you first discover the creative spirit and flawless execution which has been consistent throughout all of Sylvian's career.


You can be as bold as you like - I appreciate you taking the time to give me your recommendations, I will investigate further and look forward to hearing, what is to me, new material.


After Manafon - Blemish and maybe 'Loud Weather' (not heard any of that yet) excluded, I fear the work may sound a little 'ordinary' if I may be so bold :wink: - which is the only reason I may be disappointed, but having said that I do not exclusively enjoy challenging work – I even enjoy a bit of Coldplay sometimes :oops: – so I’m sure I will find lots to enjoy in his more commercial work...I love his voice in all I have heard so far, and find his skill in writing highly creative, melodic pieces really satisfying. I even find Manafon to be a highly melodic work, with sections sticking in my head and going round-and-round...

One thing is certain, there is a lot to discover here and that's never a bad thing.



i have to admit that i am also a first blemish discoverer then manafon

i think mamafon is a masterpiece before then there is also nothing for me only blemish and transit ie

afterlife transit etc are wonderful
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby javier on Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:02 am

Foales Arishes wrote:You can be as bold as you like - I appreciate you taking the time to give me your recommendations, I will investigate further and look forward to hearing, what is to me, new material.

After Manafon - Blemish and maybe 'Loud Weather' (not heard any of that yet) excluded, I fear the work may sound a little 'ordinary'...


Welcome to Sylvianworld - I envy your future discoveries!

I would recommend having a listen to Plight And Premonition as it marks one of the earlier experimental highlights of Sylvian's catalogue. No vocals though. Electronic juiciness. Flux And Mutability too, a companion album of sorts, is a bit more gently immersive than P&P - P&P definitely has more of an edge.
The really early albums (Brilliant Trees/Gone To Earth/Secrets Of The Beehive) of course are in a totally different paradigm than Manafon/Blemish/Naoshima. I certainly wouldn't call them ordinary, but based on their style you'd be hard pressed to recognise them as the same artist.

There are however a few albums which do tend more towards the "ordinary" and maybe you could skip these if you're unsure: I'd put Dead Bees On A Cake/Everything And Nothing/and the Nine Horses stuff in this category.
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby Foales Arishes on Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:19 am

Thank you Javier - I strange how we have these feelings when introducing others to the artists we have loved for years, these slight pangs of envy at they're discoveries. I think it is to do with the excitement felt by the new - and those oh so important first impressions, that connect the music to the point in time we first hear it...but maybe that's just me.

I will look into all these suggestions...I like the "electronic juiciness" description of P&P. I'm listening to 'Everything And Nothing' on Spotify as I write this, and there is certainly some good stuff on there, though I do find some of it a bit too smooth and loungy [lacking edge], and very much rooted to the time they were recorded - diverse he most certainly is.

Anyway, I seem to be taking this thread rather off-topic, sorry…

For starters I am ordering Blemish and Naoshima as they interest me most.
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby FlyingPig on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:06 am

Hello,
First my apologies to anyone I might have offended, I was very critical of Manafon and became somewhat sarcastic.
Anyhow, after much listenings, I'm finally grasping the album, and it comes from someone who probably has the highest numbers of listenings of the Airport Symphony on last.fm. So I'm used to minimalism.
Chocked I was at the beginning, I was expecting something much more musical, as everyone did I suppose.
So my favorite tracks are Snow White..,Small Metal Gods and Emily Dickinson.

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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby Drake on Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:28 am

After a few weeks of listening:

Manafon is IMO very melodic and more accessible than Blemish. I still prefer Blemish because I find the arrangements richer and more colourful, but Manafon is growing.

My favourite so far is the closing track.
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby Hawk on Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:23 pm

Hey

Very excited Hawk yesterday as finally saved up to buy Manafon (yes I have waited THIS LONG)!! Listened to its entirety when got home from work.

Wow it was definitely worth the wait. I don’t know if I can rate it though…I don’t know if I can even comment on it yet as I’m left feeling much like I have just stepped out of a heavy fog. It feels like I have been walking a path through glimpses of a world similar to this one but painted differently… It was mostly an urban landscape, contrary to my expectations from the cover art, which was interesting. The first track – Small Metal Gods – although I had heard it before sounded so fresh. It is probably my favourite track, alongside Greatest Living Englishman and Emily Dickinson. I can’t help feeling it didn’t really need ‘tracks,’ however, that it could have stood on its own as one long composition – a bit like a film. These are only my first impressions though…I will go through next time, knowing the path a bit, with a torch and a camera…I expect my opinion to change!

Usually the response I get from a musical album is either visual, sensual, emotional or thought-provoking…. I really don’t know what Manafon created…. It wasn’t all of them, but it wasn’t none of them either. I think I feel curious, breathless, static, clouded, amazed, enchanted… I feel even though I have ‘heard’ it once all the way through, I won’t have really ‘listened’ to it or absorbed it until I hear it another few times at least – like I said, it was foggy. But what I found enshrouded in the fog I think was magnificent. I think I could really really grow to love it. It feels like such a world to explore.

All the sounds the background artists create trigger so many combinations…schemas…shapes and textures that will, with work and in time, form some fascinating pictures. And then Sylvian’s voice directs it all – takes you through the path and tells stories of the people who live(d) there. All the places I saw were completely vacant, but not without signs of human life – things like steam, dust, dull electric lights, ceiling fans, indoor plants, hanging baskets, coffee cups… It reminded me of Sylvian’s photographs actually. As though the people who had been there had just evaporated – or, in some cases, become invisible and still working the appliances. Have you seen the film Amelie where she guides the blind man through the market place? It feels a bit like that. So I think the vocals and the session work fit very well together, as well as remaining separate enough to assume different roles within the composition. The way Sylvian used the tone fluctuations, the jumps, the punctuations – or the way he edited it – is very interesting. I have never really thought about how an album is made before, but Manafon seems to bring the creative process in to the mix as well as the finished piece. Once I am less precious about it, I think its something I could listen to in a variety of moods.

The main emotion I felt throughout Manafon was fear…? Not from Sylvian – in fact he sounded almost settled, comforting at times… No, more like…. More like I was seeing a world where everyone feared one another and humans had almost ceased to exist through their lack of interaction or understanding of one another… but they were still there… and could still be touched – could still be harmed… It felt like hunt-or-be-hunted – always stay alert… Interesting…I guess… a bit like animals in the forest…

Have you ever seen the TV series ‘Dark Angel’ or the film ‘Salmonberries?’ I saw worlds like that a lot in Manafon…

‘Hauntingly beautiful’ is a good way to describe it… or maybe ‘detached’ – alone, but not shut away, not secluded – in fact, possibly more free in its solitude? The voice was in this world, seeing this world, every scratch and angle of it, embracing it almost… surrounded by human life and walking through it… but at the same time completely alone and separate.

The line “He said to conquer the world is not to leave a trace, remove even the shadow of the memory of your face” stood out to me. It was the only line I had to play back twice as thoughts came rushing to me all of a sudden. I think Johan, the main antagonist in the anime series ‘Monster’, said a similar thing. He said he didn’t really exist….and something about becoming completely nameless and anonymous in order to become the last man standing…….or the Greatest Living …man by default??? Or am I thinking about this too much? I am still trying to figure out that anime… I also heard the line as a riddle…and, when trying to figure it out, the answer that came to me was God – God who has no face. I also pondered upon can you only ‘conquer the world’ if you become completely selfless – identityless – bodiless?

I’m sorry… this probably sounds like I have too much time on my hands but these were my immediate first thoughts and impressions of the album. I almost wanted to approach listening to Manafon like David had approached writing the lyrics – go with what you hear first, your instinct, what comes directly to mind… I really wanted to explore the idea of improvisation… otherwise I don’t think I could fully appreciate the project. When I put myself in a certain frame of mind all I hear is a cacophony of scratching and plinky noises and what sounds a bit like someone sneezing with David droning disjointed poetry over the top – and I have to try to avoid that frame – one, as it makes me very cynical and boring, and two, because I’d probably be heading very shortly for some of Baht’s therapy sessions!

Overall I felt it was an album of glimpses and ambitious narratives. I didn’t feel Manafon was a personal recollection, except slightly in Small Metal Gods, but that possibly has a lot to do with the use of first person. I didn’t feel the need to link any of the images I saw to Sylvian himself, only through him – as though his voice acted as a guide or a telescope. I think everyone sees the world differently – this world, not our own worlds. So it’s interesting to see familiar images and situations through a different lens… It felt almost like an out of body experience.

I’d love to draw or paint some of the images I saw but they were so very specific – almost too detailed for the mind to completely piece together. I saw car headlights and the edge of buildings, houses, cars and the rush of ash and leaves… I saw a game of pool being played in a wooden lodge in the middle of the snow but there were no players – sometimes I saw the end of a sleeve but no hand – everything was mostly zoomed in and so fleeting I could be in another house in a second, and then back to the pool game again. Sometimes it felt like following the ghosts home – past the streetlights, past the parked cars – and then look in the other direction and I am in their bed or looking at some keys on the sideboard or staring out of the frosted glass to see an overgrown garden and childrens toys…a fence that needs repairing… Yet it was even more complex than that… all the images were fragmented… so although I knew it was keys, there was one section missing, or as though the photograph had been cut and stuck back together again – the lighting was different on each jagged edge… or sometimes like bits were drawn in chalk. Again, very like David’s polaroid collages… It almost feels like he has used photography in the past to view the outside world, and used his music to express his inside world… but this time it’s the other way around. It spoke to me of the future. I don’t know why. It just felt very…like a world that has yet to be… post-apocalyptic in a sense…

Sorry this review is a little bit belated!! No doubt I will listen to the album again and have completely different opinions. I am really looking forward to what direction David moves in next as it feels to me like he has reached a height in this particular style.

On a different topic, my sister sent me a crazed text message the other day saying they were playing ‘Every Colour You Are’ in Wilkinsons! Slightly bemusing…and somewhat akin to my dizzy feeling when they played Nick Drake on an advert for cough syrup… :? but um I guess it’s pretty cool on one level as some of the music played in shops is dire.

That’s it from me…

…for now… :twisted:
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby missouriman on Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:50 am

I like to run and tried listening to Manafon when out the other day. Perfect. A beat is the norm when running, but this worked great. I told a friend the other day that David's voice so close reminded me of when my Dad was teaching me to ride a bike. The voice close by, the guiding hand that held the seat so I would not topple and I was never ever sure if it was me riding or him holding me unti I actually turned around and he was standing way behind me. David keeps us close. The voice is there to protect us from the imagined fear of those weird noises the other guys make. It is like he is saying "I know it sounds new and strange to you, but listen, I am here, right here next to you and don't feel afraid of this". And I ran and ran and when the music ended I put it on repeat and ran some more.

On a different note. Any musicians out there who can tell me what key he sings those amazing backing vocals in? The moans on 'Small Metal Gods" and "Emily Dickinson". I tried to copy them and could not slide my voice like he does low to higher and lower. How the hell does he do it? Some kind of black magic going on there. Such control of breath. I am in awe. Some of us are in love with this music. Some not so like ScottR. Maybe ScottR needs to run and get the cig smoke out of his lungs. ;-)
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby ScottR on Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:07 pm

Some of us are in love with this music. Some not so like ScottR. Maybe ScottR needs to run and get the cig smoke out of his lungs. ;-)


Hi Missouri, I have fond memories of Missouri. When I was a kid we use to visit the ozarks quite a bit. So beautiful. I use to travel to Kansas City for shows. I grew up in small city in Iowa, Sioux City to be exact. I occasionally miss the midwest. That is where I first discovered Japan back in 1980. We all would gather at the local record store to talk music and share ideas. I kinda miss that. The internet has sure changed things.

I think you have made a few assumptions here. If I didn't like his music I would be here, 30 years on. I just think the guy has so much talent and potential that is wasted on these beatnik drone projects. He is so well respected that he could pick up phone and call anyone on the planet and they would gladly participate. Instead we get no-name mediocre drone. But hey...whatever makes him happy.

I'm having a hard time imagining going for a run listening to this. This would never cross my mind. The two seem to me to be mutually exclusive. :)

Let me offer up a few things that I find extremely interesting listening:

Sufjan Stevens - BQE. An epic masterpiece about his travels in the Brooklyn-Queens expressway. This comes with an accompanying DVD & Viewmaster color wheel. Its a very cool package. Most of it is orchestral with some electronic elements. Check it out here - http://vimeo.com/6488845/

Andrew Bird - Noble Beast. This came out last spring and has been getting very good buzz. A very talent guy that can play any string instrument known to mankind ...and he's the worlds greats whistler to boot. His stuff often appears on TV commercials and such. He toured with St Vincent this past summer.

Grizzly Bears - Veckatimest. These guys could very well change the face of pop music. This is some of the best written music out today.

I could go on but I wont. And besides... its time for a smoke :)
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby missouriman on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:59 pm

ScottR,
Funny you check Andrew Bird and Grizzly Bears cos they both played here in Columbia recently. And Ingrid Chavez loves all three you mentioned, so I assume David got to hear them too. I really like Andrew Bird by the way. He is a talent for sure.

I know you like David's music and not Manafon. Entirely your choice, Sir. I love some projects more than others, but I place a value on anything he does because I have a long standing affection for his work. Japan and Sylvian are one of the very few artists I have ever given a damn about. Manafon isn't so detrimental as BGM when running. The mind wanders when running and I find that cetain sounds and words stick. I still have a problem with a couple of the tracks. Going to put it down to DS being deliberately difficult rather than write them off entirely. Never cared for "Pop Song" if truth be told and that was the polar opposite of Manafon. Can't listen to much of "Quiet Life" anymore either. "Tin Drum" has four tracks I listen to and skip the rest. "Gone to Earth" is still classy as is "Secrets of the Beehive". I got older and what was great when I was 18 is irrelevant to me at 45. Japan was 25 years ago. Manafon is now. I prefer the now to the then.

Missouri has some nice spots for sure and the people are real. I am all for the truth in Life and Music. Sylvian maybe needs to spend a little more time with real people rather than holed up in the wood like Ted Kczynski. We all know how that party ended folks! :smt072
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby missouriman on Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:05 pm

Do we have to censor the D**N word? It was good enough for the movies in "Gone with the Wind". It is rather annoying and not proving anything to censor that word, Silver Moon. Please?
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby inkinthewell on Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:06 pm

Hawk wrote:Overall I felt it was an album of glimpses and ambitious narratives. I didn’t feel Manafon was a personal recollection, except slightly in Small Metal Gods, but that possibly has a lot to do with the use of first person. I didn’t feel the need to link any of the images I saw to Sylvian himself, only through him – as though his voice acted as a guide or a telescope.


Yeah, it's like he wasn't there, isn't it?
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - JL 1940-1980
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby Hawk on Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:19 pm

Okay have decided I love Manafon! Hadn't listened to it for weeks and had almost given up on it. Then was in a weird mood today so I played Small Metal Gods to make it even weirder...then ended up listening to the whole album three times. Sounded different every time. Seems quite a few people have said this already...

Still can't compare it to any other album I own, let alone any other Sylvian album. I think it is a very clever piece of work. Although if I am going to be honest I wouldn't want to hear anything more like it. Just the one album is perfect. Sometimes is like being read a book at bedtime... sometimes is like being stranded out in the snow and listening to Manafon on crackling radio as try to light a fire to keep warm...

Maybe it means different things to different people. I was looking through some photos I took years ago (below) and realised some of the images I had seen in Manafon without realising they had come from my own experiences.
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby heartofdavid on Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:46 pm

@ Hawk - I loved your earlier post about Manafon, and your latest as well. Much of what you've said corresponds to my own feelings regarding the album. The more I listen to it, the more I appreciate it. I very much find the musical accompaniment serves as background accent, much as in how the sounds I hear around me are the 'music' to the moments of my life, which sounds terribly Hallmark-y, lol, but that's due to my poor ability to explain it in words. The experience of the album reminds me of listening to a close friend telling me some of his deepest thoughts and feelings while life's noises intrude, but after a time those sounds become less intrusive - there are subtle rhythms...and punctuations...to the commentary. And the commentary is very rich, a few words carrying a multitude of emotions from sadness to humor...and part of it is dependent upon my mood at the time in how I react and respond.

It is an interesting and rewarding experience for me as a listener, but I would agree with you in that if I had my preference I would be satisfied with this one venture and hear David go in other directions. I find that is what David tends to do anyway, which is why I look forward to each new offering - it is often surprising and always a gift.
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Re: David Sylvian - Manafon

Postby Hawk on Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:50 pm

Thank you heartofdavid - totally agree with you. Just listened to the whole album again. I must be in a darker phase as I saw a different world this time - more like an alleyway at night in the rain, or sometimes in a big claustrophobic pipe with water dripping down the walls and dim lights that flickered. Eerie...but fascinating to have found a new dimension. I don't know if that's how David intended it...but then I'm not sure it's the kind of album to listen to if you're not feeling imaginative...
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