Amplified Gesture

[Simonp]

My deluxe edition finally arrived yesterday. It's extremely beautiful and I'm very pleased with it. I watched Amplified Gesture late last night and while it was informative I would like to have seen more than just the musicians talking about their work. I would like to have seen live performances from each of the musicians to learn a bit more about their work. I'd also like to know what the piece of music is that is playing during the menu sequence.

Anyone else had a chance to watch it yet?

[Haldeman Gracie]

The film has a specific agenda. Sure, I'd love to see a filmed performance, or see David at work in the studio for a few hours, but I think they just wanted to stick to an agenda and a format. There is a longer cut to come as a separate release, but I suspect that may just be more of the same.

And I think it was Evan Parker in the doc who states that free improv shouldn't be a spectator sport - it's the sound alone that counts, even in a live setting. He doesn't want to be watched and the film doesn't watch him.

[baht habit]

My deluxe edition finally arrived yesterday. It's extremely beautiful and I'm very pleased with it. I watched Amplified Gesture late last night and while it was informative I would like to have seen more than just the musicians talking about their work. I would like to have seen live performances from each of the musicians to learn a bit more about their work. I'd also like to know what the piece of music is that is playing during the menu sequence.

Anyone else had a chance to watch it yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsMQ2JExxYE

This is from the menu on the Amplified Gesture DVD and is what I had wanted to discuss with you when you finally received your copy Simon.
From the very first listen, I assumed that the music was leftover from the Manafon sessions. It sounds like two different musical ideas spliced into one excerpt. At one point, while Tilbury is being interviewed, you can hear a solo piano clip of the second part of the excerpt. It caught my ears right away and really is quite engaging. And I can't help but hope that this material is released in some form in the future. The first part of the excerpt sounds like an outtake from the London sessions.

So I recently corresponded with Chris Dahlen (press release writer for Manafon) in an attempt to get some inquiries flowing out there. Here is some of our exchange:
Baht:
In the biography you contributed to the Manafon website, you include that Sylvian recently worked with Eddie Prévost, John Butcher and Dai Fujikura on the music for an installation title When We Return You Won’t Recognise Us. Do you have any knowledge if that music will be issued on SamadhiSound at some point in the future?
Also, when positioned on the menu screen of the Amplified Gesture DVD, music plays which isn’t recognizeable from Manafon – though the sound of the instruments are easily recognizeable…it seems as though the music was created from the London Session lineup which included Tilbury, cellist Marcio Mattos, and the signal processing of Joel Ryan – yet possibly embellished by a violinist {I’m assuming this is Philipp Wachsman, who didn’t happen to make the final cut on Manafon} rather than Evan Parker on saxophone. Anyway, from this I am logically concluding that there exists material from these sessions which was not contained on Manafon. Do you think that these excess sessions will ever be released?
Dahlen:
I’ll check with Samadhi if they have plans to release music from the installation. I know David and the team have some interesting releases lined up – I hope to hear them soon – but I don’t know about that one yet.
And yeah, I was really curious about where the track from the Amplified Gesture menu came from too! That’s definitely Tilbury, and the other names you mentioned make sense. I’ll look into it. There are a number of extra sessions, and they include players who aren’t even on the final album (such as Noel Akchote). I haven’t heard of any plans to release it. After Blemish, David released Derek Bailey’s original tracks for the album as the To Play album. But I have no idea if he has any plans like that for the instrumental Manafon sessions.

[inkinthewell]

Thanks for sharing.

[jon abbey]

And I think it was Evan Parker in the doc who states that free improv shouldn't be a spectator sport - it's the sound alone that counts, even in a live setting. He doesn't want to be watched and the film doesn't watch him.

why doesn't he perform in the dark then like Francisco Lopez, or not perform at all and just release recordings? ridiculous statement, if that's really what he said.

[Haldeman Gracie]

And I think it was Evan Parker in the doc who states that free improv shouldn't be a spectator sport - it's the sound alone that counts, even in a live setting. He doesn't want to be watched and the film doesn't watch him.

why doesn't he perform in the dark then like Francisco Lopez, or not perform at all and just release recordings? ridiculous statement, if that's really what he said.

If I'm misquoting him (or mis-representing him, as I'm only paraphrasing from memory of a film I saw almost a month ago, or - god help us - have got the wrong guy) then I'm sure someone will point it out. But that was the general gist of his opinion as I recall it (certainly with regards to his own performances) on the grounds that it isn't pretty to watch. The quote was something like 'It can look like a struggle, and it often is'.

However, if that is how he (or anyone else)feels, I don't think it's 'ridiculous' if he's performing as part of a collaboration. Unless he's the big cheese (a la Sylvian on Red Tree Crow who could have demanded the band perform in their underpants under ultra-violet lighting), surely he has to bend to the norm, but could still have an opinion on his own ideal scenario...?

[jon abbey]

I do hate opining on an out of context and possibly incorrect quote, but Evan Parker has played thousands of shows as a leader, including the two weeks he's in the midst of at The Stone in NYC. also, if that was really his quote, it's even funnier, as no one in all of free improv makes it look easier, in fact that's many people's major problem with his last decade or two of work.

but I'll stop talking about this now unless someone wants to post the exact quote. I haven't seen Amplified Gesture yet, Sylvian is supposed to send me one when he gets more copies.

as for Simon's wish: "I would like to have seen live performances from each of the musicians to learn a bit more about their work." I've mentioned it here before, but I released a DVD along these lines as part of the AMPLIFY box set a few years ago. it's not all of the same musicians, but Keith Rowe, Otomo Yoshihide, Sachiko M, Toshi Nakamura, Burkhard Stangl, Tetuzi Akiyama, were all involved. it's available for purchase separately, just PM or e-mail me (erstrecs@aol.com).

http://www.erstwhilerecords.com/catalog/033_040.html

[Haldeman Gracie]

I do hate opining on an out of context and possibly incorrect quote, but Evan Parker has played thousands of shows as a leader, including the two weeks he's in the midst of at The Stone in NYC. also, if that was really his quote, it's even funnier, as no one in all of free improv makes it look easier, in fact that's many people's major problem with his last decade or two of work.

but I'll stop talking about this now unless someone wants to post the exact quote. I haven't seen Amplified Gesture yet, Sylvian is supposed to send me one when he gets more copies.

I should have the DVD myself in the next few days, and I'll double check it then if no one else confirms in the interim. I didn't know who any of these people were before the doc, so maybe it was said by another participant.

[Haldeman Gracie]

The full quote from Amplified Gesture:

Evan Parker: It would be nice to be invisible. I mean to just disappear, just be the sound. I'm not terribly interested in the way the playing looks. In fact to me it sometimes looks like a struggle. And the consequent sound doesn't sound like a struggle at all but the job of making those sounds can give the appearance of a struggle or even can be a struggle. So for me, I'm not particularly interested in watching people play, I like to just listen to them play. I know other people feel differently."

[jon abbey]

The full quote from Amplified Gesture:

Evan Parker: It would be nice to be invisible. I mean to just disappear, just be the sound. I'm not terribly interested in the way the playing looks. In fact to me it sometimes looks like a struggle. And the consequent sound doesn't sound like a struggle at all but the job of making those sounds can give the appearance of a struggle or even can be a struggle. So for me, I'm not particularly interested in watching people play, I like to just listen to them play. I know other people feel differently."

thanks. it just seems kind of like an offhand thought that he didn't put much time into, and not connected to his actual four decades as a musician. if he actually wanted to do this, he could do what Tony Conrad did for years and just play behind a curtain where all you could see was his silhouette.

[Haldeman Gracie]

The final sentence in the quote a) gives the impression that both thought and discussion with his peers has gone on with regards this subject, possibly over many years and b) that the dissenting opinion may be the reason why he doesn't do it. There is also the audience to consider.

Doing one thing but thinking you'd prefer it another way is hardly unusual in any walk of life. Maybe he's just not a diva.

[jon abbey]

even if all of that was true (doubtful), he could play solo shows however he wanted, and he doesn't. and what the audience would want shouldn't have anything to do with it. it has nothing to do with being a "diva"'; one of the fundamental ideas of free improvisation is trying to present your work however you choose to do that. this isn't a radical concept he's talking about, my only point is that it's silly to talk about it and never ever actually do it. if you want to do it, do it.

anyway, I've spent hundreds of hours listening to Parker's music (although virtually none of them in the last decade or so, as I got quite sick of his music), have seen him play a few dozen shows, and have talked to him in person a couple of times. you're trying to defend a single out of context statement with admittedly very little background in the topic, not quite sure why.

[Haldeman Gracie]

you're trying to defend a single out of context statement with admittedly very little background in the topic, not quite sure why.

...because there is nothing in the statement I find to be remotely odd. But elsewhere it's gone from being a 'ridiculous' comment to being more or less 'he doesn't really mean it, or he's a hypocritical idiot.'

Given these comments are being peppered by jibes of laziness and how sick you got with his music, I can take it as being little more than personal at this stage. I'm sure the fact that he seems to be one of the few documentary participants not on your label couldn't have anything to do with it either.

[neonico]

you're trying to defend a single out of context statement with admittedly very little background in the topic, not quite sure why.

...because there is nothing in the statement I find to be remotely odd. But elsewhere it's gone from being a 'ridiculous' comment to being more or less 'he doesn't really mean it, or he's a hypocritical idiot.'

Given these comments are being peppered by jibes of laziness and how sick you got with his music, I can take it as being little more than personal at this stage. I'm sure the fact that he seems to be one of the few documentary participants not on your label couldn't have anything to do with it either.

stop being so serious guys cheer up a little the world is hard enough as it is..
this always brings not wanted arguments.....

dream of something sweet...

[jon abbey]

.because there is nothing in the statement I find to be remotely odd.

then why doesn't he just do it? it's pointless idle musing, especially when it's something other people have done.