Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

From Brilliant Trees through Died In The Wool...

Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby Simonp on Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:00 pm

Haldeman Gracie wrote:
I did Fort William to Glasgow by car just a few weeks back. I'm sure between the stunning scenery and the train's natural tranquility, it'll be as good a forum for listening to Manafon as any. Better than listening to it down the Drovers in any case!


Its a beautiful journey isnt it? I drove down to glasgow this morning and the drive is lovely but the train journey takes you a different route and is simply beautiful in places. I'm looking forward to listening to manafon a week on monday when I make the trip to the massive attack gig
MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby Simonp on Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:15 pm

MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON MANAFON
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby inkinthewell on Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:02 pm



No, considering that
TinyMixTapes wrote:“The Rabbit Skinner,” where Sylvian’s vocals are at their most naked and vulnerable, haunted by Evan Parker’s warbling cello and Marcio Mattos’s moaning saxophone
it's certainly not a good review. :D
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - JL 1940-1980
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby baht habit on Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:06 pm

Looks as though they corrected the error regarding Mattos and Parker. Though I don't personally agree with the conclusions that the writer has come to, it's an honorable review. There's no crazy ranting and no irrational diatribes directed personally toward Sylvian. So the writer is not a candidate for 'trauma therapy'. :-)
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby becky on Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:00 am

This is a rhetorical question Dr. Baht! I would be interested to know just what form of treatment you would offer to all these contenders for Trauma Therapy to cure them of their perceived affliction!? :lol:
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby inkinthewell on Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:05 pm

baht habit wrote:Looks as though they corrected the error regarding Mattos and Parker. Though I don't personally agree with the conclusions that the writer has come to, it's an honorable review. There's no crazy ranting and no irrational diatribes directed personally toward Sylvian. So the writer is not a candidate for 'trauma therapy'. :-)


The thing I don't like about it is that Hammerling gives you the idea that he struggled through it once and has no intention of going back to it ever again. Fair enough for anybody, but not for a reviewer. Music is the least immediate of arts, and can change incredibly from one listen to another, so, whatever the record, it would be best to listen to it a couple of times before judging it.
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby ob8 on Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:21 pm

Some people do not have the patience to listen to something which takes time and effort to reveal itself. They want something immediate, non challenging, something they dont have to really give much of themselves to. The best things in life take time to develop and Manafon is no different. I did not like half of it upon first play, but that's changing and it's wonderful discovering everything that Manafon has to offer.
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby barryinstockholm on Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:58 am

Preface: DS has been my favorite artist since the Red Guitar single. I have everything he has done.

Confession: I hated Manafon upon first 1-3 listens. Boring. Coulda stuck a field mic outside his window to same affact, etc.
I also (still) dislike the Derek Bailey tracks but LOVE the rest of Blemish.
In other words, I'm a prime candidate for trauma therapy.

Revelation: I CAN enjoy Manafon, but only in small bits. (2-3 tracks at a time). This keeps the monotony at bay.

My hope: to one day be able to hear the whole album at once.

There, I said it.
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby baht habit on Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:22 am

barryinstockholm wrote:In other words, I'm a prime candidate for trauma therapy.


I am sorry, dear sir, though please be encouraged by our determination that you should be rejected for any such treatment of 'trauma therapy'. :-)
You come across as far too rational nor do you display any signs of immense rage or anger. You don't seem to dwell in the past nor do you focus your remarks directly to Sylvian as if he were reading your words.
Also, it would be wise not to attempt self diagnosis - for you do you not give yourself enough credit in doing so.
I do prescribe that, for now, you focus on the songs that do appeal to you.
For the purpose of discussion, I will assume that Rabbit Skinner, Random Acts and Greatest Living Englishman are the tracks which are bringing the most 'discomfort'. :-) I apologize if I have come to incorrect conclusions.
If you happen to feel as if you wish to tackle the slightly more challenging content on Manafon, I can humbly suggest that you first decide what instruments (other than voice) will be your focus. What I noticed is that on some of what could be considered the more 'difficult' tracks, Sylvian added some truly fantastic sounding acoustic guitar. I am referring to his use of jazz chords on Rabbit Skinner or the almost flamenco sounding finger picking on Random Acts. Focusing mainly on Sylvian's voice, his guitar, and John Tilbury's piano will perhaps help to make this material come across somewhat smoother for they are the most conventionally played instruments throughout. Also, on Random Acts, take note that Sylvian alternates the phrasing of his vocals within the time signatures of both 4/4 and 6/8. The accompanying improvisations are obviously not based upon strict time nor tempo.
As a footnote, if the instrumental The Department Of Dead Letters is not a track that 'reaches' you, then may I suggest reprogramming the track sequence and placing it immediately after Random Acts? In my opinion, it sounds awesomely appropriate following that particular track rather than being placed in between the instrumental coda of Emily Dickinson and the instrumental intro to Manafon.
The Greatest Living Englishman is admittedly a lengthy track with a good deal of disparate elements : vast electronic fluctuations and manipulations, discordant acoustic guitar ala Derek Bailey, a vocal crooning (seemingly about a suicide note or such), and an eerie sampled string quartet. My 8 year old nephew especially enjoys this track and calls it Mad Scientist Music. :-) If this song didn't catch you on first listen or after the third listen, and happens to be causing the most difficulty, I suggest simply skipping it entirely with every listen.
Also, if you want to add a little more zest to the content of Manafon, I recommend putting Sleepwalkers in the tracklist. I personally feel that, though obviously the song was derived from entirely different practices, the inclusion of Sleepwalkers would have given Manafon a necessary amount of 'bite' which would have silenced a good deal of the critical reviewers --- imagine their response when they were giving a chance to have heard Sylvian toss out the f-bomb!?! :twisted: It's a darn shame that track has been marginalized by only being included on a limited collection of songs in a tour book. It sounds real good as a lead off track. Since it includes contributions from both Sachiko M and Toshimaru Nakamura - as well as Polwechsel's Martin Brandlmayr - I personally feel it fits in well enough with the mindset of Manafon
But, of course, I can't play that song for my nephew :)

For a fine example of an ideal candidate for 'trauma therapy', check out this splendid review:

dont even think of buying this
its amazing how inventive, talented musicians can create so many great albums and then release absolute TRASH like this. being a huge david sylvian fan i was anxious to hear some new material from him. this is totally unlistenable. by the second "piece" i was disinterested. this does not even deserve a ONE star rating. it is not ambient, it goes nowhere,the music and vocals do not interact, there are no songs and it is the most tedious crap i have ever heard. believe me stay away from this one. better luck next time davey!!!
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby neonico on Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:05 pm

baht habit wrote:
barryinstockholm wrote:In other words, I'm a prime candidate for trauma therapy.


I am sorry, dear sir, though please be encouraged by our determination that you should be rejected for any such treatment of 'trauma therapy'. :-)
You come across as far too rational nor do you display any signs of immense rage or anger. You don't seem to dwell in the past nor do you focus your remarks directly to Sylvian as if he were reading your words.
Also, it would be wise not to attempt self diagnosis - for you do you not give yourself enough credit in doing so.
I do prescribe that, for now, you focus on the songs that do appeal to you.
For the purpose of discussion, I will assume that Rabbit Skinner, Random Acts and Greatest Living Englishman are the tracks which are bringing the most 'discomfort'. :-) I apologize if I have come to incorrect conclusions.
If you happen to feel as if you wish to tackle the slightly more challenging content on Manafon, I can humbly suggest that you first decide what instruments (other than voice) will be your focus. What I noticed is that on some of what could be considered the more 'difficult' tracks, Sylvian added some truly fantastic sounding acoustic guitar. I am referring to his use of jazz chords on Rabbit Skinner or the almost flamenco sounding finger picking on Random Acts. Focusing mainly on Sylvian's voice, his guitar, and John Tilbury's piano will perhaps help to make this material come across somewhat smoother for they are the most conventionally played instruments throughout. Also, on Random Acts, take note that Sylvian alternates the phrasing of his vocals within the time signatures of both 4/4 and 6/8. The accompanying improvisations are obviously not based upon strict time nor tempo.
As a footnote, if the instrumental The Department Of Dead Letters is not a track that 'reaches' you, then may I suggest reprogramming the track sequence and placing it immediately after Random Acts? In my opinion, it sounds awesomely appropriate following that particular track rather than being placed in between the instrumental coda of Emily Dickinson and the instrumental intro to Manafon.
The Greatest Living Englishman is admittedly a lengthy track with a good deal of disparate elements : vast electronic fluctuations and manipulations, discordant acoustic guitar ala Derek Bailey, a vocal crooning (seemingly about a suicide note or such), and an eerie sampled string quartet. My 8 year old nephew especially enjoys this track and calls it Mad Scientist Music. :-) If this song didn't catch you on first listen or after the third listen, and happens to be causing the most difficulty, I suggest simply skipping it entirely with every listen.
Also, if you want to add a little more zest to the content of Manafon, I recommend putting Sleepwalkers in the tracklist. I personally feel that, though obviously the song was derived from entirely different practices, the inclusion of Sleepwalkers would have given Manafon a necessary amount of 'bite' which would have silenced a good deal of the critical reviewers --- imagine their response when they were giving a chance to have heard Sylvian toss out the f-bomb!?! :twisted: It's a darn shame that track has been marginalized by only being included on a limited collection of songs in a tour book. It sounds real good as a lead off track. Since it includes contributions from both Sachiko M and Toshimaru Nakamura - as well as Polwechsel's Martin Brandlmayr - I personally feel it fits in well enough with the mindset of Manafon
But, of course, I can't play that song for my nephew :)

For a fine example of an ideal candidate for 'trauma therapy', check out this splendid review:

dont even think of buying this
its amazing how inventive, talented musicians can create so many great albums and then release absolute TRASH like this. being a huge david sylvian fan i was anxious to hear some new material from him. this is totally unlistenable. by the second "piece" i was disinterested. this does not even deserve a ONE star rating. it is not ambient, it goes nowhere,the music and vocals do not interact, there are no songs and it is the most tedious crap i have ever heard. believe me stay away from this one. better luck next time davey!!!



listen to it a couple more times then perhaps you like it baht habit ....
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby baht habit on Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:11 pm

neonico wrote:listen to it a couple more times then perhaps you like it baht habit ....


No, no, no, sweet neonico, I have thoroughly enjoyed Manafon since the very first listen which I experienced a month ago. I was simply sharing a review from another individual who took the time to write a review expressing frustration in quite an animated manner - just so you understand, I did not write that nor do I agree with that. I initially started this specific thread for the express purpose of sharing the more 'over the top' reactions to Manafon...and that review was yet another perfect example.
I understand that there exists a language barrier and sometimes comprehension problems occur - all which is actually endearing at times. Please be sure that I definitely view Sylvian's latest musical directions in order to create Manafon as a complete positive.
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby baht habit on Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:05 pm

:twisted: Here are remarks from a comment section on youtube:

>>>David, please come back to your beautiful, wise and sane compositions accessible for normal humans (...). You are not jazz genius to fool alround like that. It is not listenable! You are no good at atonality, dedacophony and the like. Forget it and give yourself a break! Return to Orfeus, Bees or even good ambient stuff. <<<

In addition to the irrational plea addressed directly to Sylvian (which automatically should qualify one as a candidate for 'trauma therapy' :-) ), this person exhibits a tightly held grasp to the past, to the point of yearning for Sylvian to remain musically stagnant at best - at worst, artistically regressive... as well as the despair and slight anger evident in the words and punctuation, this person considers folks like you and I, who may happen to enjoy the contents of Manafon and actually get something out of the cd on an intellectual level, to be abnormal humans. :)

Do you suppose this person would feel that we all need 'therapy' of some sort??? :twisted:
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby Silver Moon on Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:37 pm

LOL. tbh, I think sometimes there should be "Trauma Therapy" for Dead Bees on A Cake. It seems most people who love Blemish & Manafon hate Dead Bees. ... Is it possible to like... Both? I think so! :)

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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby natsume on Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:43 pm

Silver Moon wrote: It seems most people who love Blemish & Manafon hate Dead Bees. ... Is it possible to like... Both? I think so! :)


Absolutely! (I even like the much reviled CE.)
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Re: Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

Postby baht habit on Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:20 pm

Silver Moon wrote:LOL. tbh, I think sometimes there should be "Trauma Therapy" for Dead Bees on A Cake. It seems most people who love Blemish & Manafon hate Dead Bees. ... Is it possible to like... Both? I think so! :)

-K-


I think so too. I am not sure how it is possible to 'hate' any of Sylvian's solo material, though obviously we have witnessed extraordinary examples of hate of late. We all may have certain songs that we find lackluster for whatever reason or another, but one has to admit that he usually puts out a high quality product on so many different levels. Even though I don't personally lean favorably towards a small portion of the Dead Bees material, I can't reasonably find any fault in particular with them when they are performed and produced so darn well. I have to be rational enough to realize that any aversion I happen to have is most likely due to my personal taste and bias, and so I wouldn't dare consider those who do like that material to be anything other than 'normal humans'. :-) :-) :-)

So here is another youtube comment made by the same person (the fan yearning for a 'three minute hero') who I quoted on the first post of this thread:

>>>This is a bridge too far for me.
You can't reinvent the wheel, and a pop song can only be changed in so many ways before it becomes unrecognizable.
Time for Sylvian to move to another medium to convey his message.
He makes music for himself, great. There maybe will soon come a time when he'll be the only one listening to them.
An ever decreasing circle of insularity. original, and pointless.<<<

It's sometimes astounding how a person can be so sure that their specific taste or biases define the parameters to which everyone else should conform.
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