David Sylvian - Manafon

[baht habit]

Consider me greatly excited - anxious - impatient - as well.

Paul, thanks for such an amazing update. I had no previous inclination that trumpeter Franz Hautzinger was also going to be a contributor to Manafon and that is quite an encouraging revelation. Though I have only heard his playing on the Tilbury/Matsubara/Dafeldecker/Hautzinger project titled 'Absinth', I can easily say his style is quite unique. Sylvian always seems to gravitate towards the most experimental trumpeters and this player truly fits the bill.
Evidently Hautzinger previously had collaborated with both Derek Bailey and Hayden Chisholm (both musicians we are aware of from their respective work on Sylvian projects) and collaborated with Keith Rowe on a project released on Mr Abbey's Erstwhile label.

[Stoobie]

cant wait ! sounds like one of those times you put ear phones on and play as not to let anyone in on your secret !

Stoobie

rollon September !

[inkinthewell]

Well well well, that's made a wonderful day even better. Thank you all so much for this.

[jon abbey]

Musician Credits for Manafon

small metal gods (5:49)
music: dafeldecker/fennesz/moser/stangl/sylvian
lyrics: sylvian
guitar: burkard stangl
acoustic bass: werner dafeldecker
cello: michael moser
laptop, guitar: christian fennesz
no-input mixer: toshimaru nakamura
turntables: otomo yoshihide
vocals: david sylvian

the rabbit skinner (4:42)
music: fennesz/mattos/parker/ryan/sylvian/tilbury
lyrics: sylvian
piano: john tilbury
saxophone: evan parker
cello: marcio mattos
laptop guitar: christian fennesz
live signal processing: joel ryan
vocals, acoustic guitar: david sylvian

random acts of senseless violence * (7:06)
music: dafeldecker/fennesz/moser/rowe/sylvian
lyrics: sylvian
guitar: keith rowe
piano: john tilbury
acoustic bass: werner dafeldecker
cello: michael moser
laptop, guitar: christian fennesz
turntables: otomo yoshihide
trumpet: franz hautzinger
vocals, keyboards, acoustic guitar: david sylvian

the greatest living englishman (10:55)
music: akiyama/sachiko m/nakamura/yoshihide/sylvian
lyrics: sylvian
electric and acoustic guitar (left channel): tetuzi akiyama
no-input mixer: toshimaru nakamura
sine wave sampler: sachiko m.
turntables, acoustic guitar (right channel): otomo yoshihide
piano: john tilbury
vocals: david sylvian

125 spheres (0:29)
music: dafeldecker/fennesz/stangl/sylvian
lyrics: sylvian
guitar: burkard stangl
acoustic bass: werner dafeldecker
laptop, guitar: christian fennesz
vocals, electronics: david sylvian

snow white in appalachia * (6:36)
music: dafeldecker/fennesz/moser/rowe/sylvian
lyrics: sylvian
guitar: keith rowe
piano: john tilbury
acoustic bass: werner dafeldecker
cello: michael moser
laptop, guitar: christian fennesz
vocals, keyboards: david sylvian

emily dickinson (6:25)
music: fennesz/parker/sylvian/tilbury
lyrics: sylvian
piano: john tilbury
saxophone: evan parker
laptop guitar: christian fennesz
signal processing: joel ryan
vocals, electronics: david sylvian

the department of dead letters (2:26)
music: fennesz/mattos/parker/sylvian/tilbury
piano: john tilbury
saxophone: evan parker
cello: marcio mattos
laptop guitar: christian fennesz
live signal processing: joel ryan
electronics: david sylvian

manafon * (5:23)
music: dafeldecker/fennesz/moser/rowe/sylvian
lyrics: sylvian
guitar: keith rowe
acoustic bass: werner dafeldecker
cello: michael moser
laptop, guitar: christian fennesz
trumpet: franz hautzinger
vocals: david sylvian

thanks a lot for these, although they're a bit odd. the "music" credit doesn't match up with the people on the tracks a lot of the time. maybe overdubs aren't credited like that, but it's pretty strange.

[karnsculpture]

The credits are the ones sent out to the press, nothing changed.

[jon abbey]

is that answering my post? if it is, it doesn't address my question.

[karnsculpture]

Yes, I was answering your post in case you thought the credits may have been typed out incorrectly.

[baht habit]

thanks a lot for these, although they're a bit odd. the "music" credit doesn't match up with the people on the tracks a lot of the time. maybe overdubs aren't credited like that, but it's pretty strange.

Yes, I've noticed that as well. I suppose we can conclude that the only performers who have received a credit of composition for any given track were those musicians who were present during the initial improvisation of that track. That initial improv is possibly being viewed by Sylvian as those exact moments when the piece of music was being composed by the improvising unit and any additional work serves the purpose of fleshing out the song to a certain extent, rather than being a part of the process which took place during the initial improvisation of the piece. I understand the logic to a degree, even if I was fairly poor in my description.
I am most encouraged to see that John Tilbury's piano appears to be featured prominently on the disc --- He is on 6 of the 9 tracks.

[jon abbey]

Yes, I've noticed that as well. I suppose we can conclude that the only performers who have received a credit of composition for any given track were those musicians who were present during the initial improvisation of that track. That initial improv is possibly being viewed by Sylvian as those exact moments when the piece of music was being composed by the improvising unit and any additional work serves the purpose of fleshing out the song to a certain extent, rather than being a part of the process which took place during the initial improvisation of the piece. I understand the logic to a degree, even if I was fairly poor in my description.

sure, that's what I said, but aren't the Sylvian parts added later too? so why he is he credited? it's an odd decision/distinction, not one I'd personally be comfortable making.

[ob8]

From the Mojo Interview. Question. So when you started recording, there was'nt any music per se ? David. We had absolutely nothing. When you get into a room with a group of wonderful free improv players there's very little that you can tell them. We're mining for gold but i'm only going to recognise the gold when we strike it. The important part of the process is the selection: who's going to be in that room and what's the chemistry going to be ? The first session i did was in Vienna in 2004. I gave myself eight days to explore the territory with Christian Fennesz, Keith Rowe and a couple of other musicians. We started out with a large group of players and the music was very dense. It was amazing stuff but it was'nt what i was looking for. It was'nt until about day seven when we pared it down to a quartet - a bass, cello and Keith and Christian - that it began to work. Question. Did your vocal melodies come after the music ? David. Yes. It's an improvisation, usually with guitar with me, and then an immediate listening back and writing down automatic lyrics - whatever comes out, you go with. At the same time as you're writing, you're composing the melody. Within a few hours you have lyrics and a melody, and you record on the spot. It's a matter of keeping that freshness alive. There's not much place for revision, you just trust in the process. You don't know how revealing it is, or whether there's logic to it or lack of it.

[baht habit]

sure, that's what I said, but aren't the Sylvian parts added later too? so why he is he credited? it's an odd decision/distinction, not one I'd personally be comfortable making.

Ah Jon, that may be because you seem to be an honest guy who has definitely found himself immersed in the world of electro-acoustic improvisation - a genre where every player has earned the prominence wherein their input is distinct and respected as an integral part of the music. And I definitely agree with your line of thinking, though I can also see the logic in keeping the credit to the core originators.
So though Sylvian has tapped into this resource for his new release, he is still foremost a pop musician with an ego and I can only figure that as the pop musician with his name on the cover, Sylvian must feel as though any amount of his musical concepts, suggestions, ideas and guidance towards the proceedings were worthy of a compositional credit....Sort of like the late great Zappa, when he would hold the sole songwriting credit on a track that was actually improvised by his stellar sidemen. It may not be quite fair, I am sure that it could have been a sore point with some, but Sylvian is giving credit to those who created the initial work and therefore they should receive better royalties with the publishing. We can all agree that Sylvian just might be 'boosting' the level of his own input somewhat.
Now let me ask you Jon, did you ever obtain a copy of Polwechsel & Tilbury's "Field" ?

[untitled]

We can all agree that Sylvian just might be 'boosting' the level of his own input somewhat.

I don't think I'm ready to agree that without listening to the tracks first. The Mojo quote seemed to imply the vocals have their own melody. This would merit a music credit, as well as a vocal/lyric credit...No?

[fletchertronics]

Speaking as a composer / producer I can say that (at least in my experiences and those of the artists with whom I've worked) "who played what" and "in what order it was recorded" often has little relevance to the writer's credit.

I have co-written pieces that I've barely played a note on, yet during both the conceptual and developmental stages I directed the performers. Other times I have played almost everything, yet I co-credit one or two others who may have either inspired the piece or contributed in non-physical ways to the writing...

It can work so many ways, so whilst I love to scour over the credits and soak in any tidbits of information gleaned from interviews, often 90% of the track's genesis remains unknown to the listening public. This is especially so when working in a non-linear recording / arranging process, as Sylvian does.

I doubt that David elevates his role in any way, and I'm sure the credits are a fair summation of the key players (though not necessarily 'physically') on any given piece

Anyway - there are some great sounding titles there, and I'm very much looking forward to hearing this album..

[jon abbey]

I think it's a bad decision by Mr. Sylvian, and I'll leave it at that.

Now let me ask you Jon, did you ever obtain a copy of Polwechsel & Tilbury's "Field" ?

no, the package has somehow been stuck at Customs for three weeks.

[Blemished]

I think it's a bad decision by Mr. Sylvian, and I'll leave it at that.

With all due respect, I don't see the issue here - the credits mostly tally. I would imagine that those who created the skeleton of the track are credited - improvised overdubs on top aren't really "writing" in my view. I would suspect that Sylvian's been quite scrupulously correct here given the format. But maybe I'm biased!