Fan sites

[liberty boy]

i just have to tell you all I'm going to leave you to it. I've been on the internet for six years and on various discussion forums. My friend always said you're a big David sylvian fan why don't you join a David sylvian forum. The problem I was always wary of- and which applies to fan sites in general is the one that I had with the fanzine Bamboo. I suspected there would be too much slavish worship. In particular the mentality of fanatical fans would be offputting -I suspected a new david sylvian release would be automatically declared a work of genius before people had even heard a note. I feel however much you appreciate someone- an objective criticial faculty is still desirable. Hence I don't want to risk being seen as some sort of troll If I were to retain the right to point out possible shortcomings now and then. I guess a pure fan site will never be the the place for me but in anycase thanks for putting up with my tuppeneth on the guy we all hold in massive esteem.

Overall talking of the internet in general asa medium alot of the internet is very niche orientated. For example you might have anarchist sympathies but if you were to go on such a site and start questioning aspects you weren't sure about you could quickly run into hostility etc. My feelings are in general that people might realise the limitations of online communities. But anyway that's an issue for another day.

So i wish you all well and take care and keep the cause going.XXX

[Melaszka]

i just have to tell you all I'm going to leave you to it. I've been on the internet for six years and on various discussion forums. My friend always said you're a big David sylvian fan why don't you join a David sylvian forum. The problem I was always wary of- and which applies to fan sites in general is the one that I had with the fanzine Bamboo. I suspected there would be too much slavish worship. In particular the mentality of fanatical fans would be offputting -I suspected a new david sylvian release would be automatically declared a work of genius before people had even heard a note. I feel however much you appreciate someone- an objective criticial faculty is still desirable. Hence I don't want to risk being seen as some sort of troll If I were to retain the right to point out possible shortcomings now and then. I guess a pure fan site will never be the the place for me but in anycase thanks for putting up with my tuppeneth on the guy we all hold in massive esteem.

Overall talking of the internet in general asa medium alot of the internet is very niche orientated. For example you might have anarchist sympathies but if you were to go on such a site and start questioning aspects you weren't sure about you could quickly run into hostility etc. My feelings are in general that people might realise the limitations of online communities. But anyway that's an issue for another day.

So i wish you all well and take care and keep the cause going.XXX

I'm very disappointed you feel like this, libertyboy, as I've found lots of your posts thought-provoking and they've stimulated some great discussion and debate. I hope you don't feel I've been hostile - I love arguing, and where I've disagreed with you, it hasn't meant I haven't had disrespect for your views or haven't found them interesting - quite the reverse. I think we need alternative voices to keep things interesting and instigate debate.

I don't think people on this site are slavishly devoted. I certainly don't like everything David or Japan have ever done and have said so in the past, without receiving brickbats.

I don't think it's possibly to be "critically objective" about music, however, or to empirically identify "shortcomings" - one man's meat will always be another man's poison. I think it's fine to say "I don't like X", but not "X is rubbish" or "no-one with any taste or serious appreciation of music could possibly like X".

[sisterlondon]

I suspected a new david sylvian release would be automatically declared a work of genius before people had even heard a note.

Well, if you have stayed here longer you would have realised it's not like that. I have always said I don't get Blemish, and I bought Naoshima and while I think it's okay, I wasn't enthusiastic about it and haven't played it much.

You can just come to a board and hope that everyone agrees with anything you say. Even less in internet, where people come from very different places and have different lives and experiences. You can't expect saying that some bands are good or bad and that we all say "oh yes, you are so right!". That's not how it works. I'm very passionate about bands I like and while I agree not everyone can't like the same, I just want some respect about what I enjoy, being it Porcupine Tree, Duran Duran, japan or whatever.

Sorry you didn't like it here. It's truly a nice place to be and I think (IMO) that we are very civil and polite.

[John Trevethan]

liberty boy,

Don't give up so easily, you have generated a good bit of activity and discussion here recently - which is a good thing! You're not the only one in this forum who disagrees or argues with popular opinion (search some of the older threads and you will see what I mean).

I think that you will be hard pressed to find as unique a forum as this one where disagreements are handled with a good dose of courtesy, respect and goodwill.

[anortherncod]

Might I offer what I would consider to be some friendly advice here?

Maybe you've run into some problems because of the way you have phrased your responses. Let's take the recent discussions about Duran Duran as an example. I haven't listened to them for about 26 years and can take or leave them - but that doesn't mean I want to berate others for liking them. If someone on here really liked, let's say, Robbie Williams, who I think is a prize idiot, I wouldn't have a go because they liked him. If I'm not particularly interested in the topic of a thread, I don't reply to it, simple as.

I certainly don't think there is the blanket blind devotion that you think there is - as other people have also said earlier in this thread. Witness the responses to your post about PT. No one said that you were wrong not to like them and we certainly didn't all say that everything PT have done is fantastic just because RB is a quarter of the band.

The discussion about the BNP I found rather disturbing, I have to admit, but anyway, aren't we all here to discuss Japan and related projects?

What I'm trying to say is that if you thought a little more carefully about how you post, rather than what you post, you might enjoy it more. If not, will it really matter which forums you're active in? You may always run into the same problems.

Natasha

[Lady Arcadia]

An interesting thread, and one I wasn't going to add to, but have thought I would like to add a little something...

Do listen LibertyBoy to the comments above. Not everyone is going to share the same view as you. It does not make them right and you wrong, or visa versa.

If you expect everyone to agree with your way of thinking everytime you are on the internet, it will be a lonely place for you.

I am assuming, but based on the last couple of posts, your decision was reached after your postings regarding DD on the other thread? To be honest, I wasn't too fussed with them, but I didn't comment, opinions are different that is it. Hint with all message boards and fan sites, if you don't like the subject/topic, just don't look at it. Simple.

Last point, and I am not wanting to be nasty here, but if you do wish to leave any fan site, you do not need to make an statement saying so. Just delete the bookmark on your browser and carry on surfing. I no longer post on DD sites, but I didn't annouce I was going, - unlike on this site, if you try that trick, you may get a few nasty remarks or "home truths" given to you.

Anyway, that is just my 2c, if you decide to stay great, if you decide you still want to leave, that is OK too. Either way, it has been interesting reading your comments to different topics.

[Astronaut]

I am assuming, but based on the last couple of posts, your decision was reached after your postings regarding DD on the other thread?
Last point, and I am not wanting to be nasty here, but if you do wish to leave any fan site, you do not need to make an statement saying so. Just delete the bookmark on your browser and carry on surfing. I no longer post on DD sites, but I didn't annouce I was going, - unlike on this site, if you try that trick, you may get a few nasty remarks or "home truths" given to you.

I think that you will be hard pressed to find as unique a forum as this one where disagreements are handled with a good dose of courtesy, respect and goodwill.

Ellyn and John T are both correct. This is a great forum and everyone is usually very tolerant and polite to each other. It's not so much what you say, but the way you say it. Ellyn is also spot on with her observation of DD forums. Really Libertyboy if you ever feel the need to be insulted just take a look at them - an object lesson in how NOT to behave on the net.

[tallulahtaurus]

What would give you the right to presume that because the people here are 'fans' that they don't employ their critical faculties in deciding whether they like the music that Sylvian or associates have made?

I mean are you seriously implying that negative opinions are instantly more objective than positive ones?? Or merely that yours are more objective??

Either way its a little silly

I am not a really active participant in discussions here, to be honest and I've only just seriously read your posts but as I see it you didn't want discussion, you wanted people to agree with you.

Please don't attempt to justify your decision to leave by making it about the attitudes of the people on this forum when it is all tied up in your own. People were perfectly respectful of you and your opinions, you just couldn't return the favour.

[baht habit]

By now, I figure this 'boy' is no longer perusing this site, yet I'll bother to contribute to this silliness as well.
This 'boy' attempted to frame a picture of inaccuracy by claiming that the participants of this forum are merely idol worshippers and incapable of objective criticism, yet I find that to be far from the truth. This 'boy' obviously didn't take the neccessary time to delve into the backlog of intelligent discussions and debates so many of us have held on this forum. I myself often come across as a complete jerk while attempting to put forth my views, but I must aver that I truly respect the differing viewpoints that I read on this site.
In my opinion, the narrowminded remarks that he shared in relation to his viewpoints on music shouldn't be missed anyhow. He found it quite easy to criticize the lot of us under false pretenses, so therefore I shall find it easier to criticize this 'boy'. Apparently he doesn't realize that we all listen to music with different ears, and find varying degrees of enjoyment in whatever forms of music we have happened to come across in our lifetimes. For him to opine that improvisational music is boring and not enjoyable for all listener and in part, only enjoyable to those taking part in the creation of such music shows this narrowmindedness to its fullest extent, and is proof of some strong willingness on his part to determine that everyone listening to music should share the same musical perceptions that he holds.

[anortherncod]

By now, I figure this 'boy' is no longer perusing this site

Or... is he? You can, of course, log in to this forum as a guest.

As other people have said before, there wasn't any need for him to say he was going, and people always write for an audience - at least in my opinion. So I wouldn't be surprised if he comes back 'anonymously' to have a look. We may never know!

Natasha

[liberty boy]

hi I'm just popping into on this loose end evening. I guess you're right you don't say you're leaving. It's a sort of ego impulse instead of perhaps adopting the more modest view that the english way to quietly slip away. I guess in that regard I try as hard as most to realise that I don't matter, in either elements of musical criticism or in other aspects of life but nevertheless with time on your hands you do get drawn in abit emotionally unless- you find a way of living your life asa person without any sort of soul I suppose.

I admit for what's it worth I don't want to have to argue that Duran duran weren't ridiculous and indeed such a forum should attach more importance to Danny Thompson or Michael Brooks, than Nick rhodes. BUt It is as I've discussed with my non internet friends, a sign that the internet even when it regards a special interest site, isn't always the ideal medium for bringing together the like minded that you possibly think it would be.

Otherthan that just accept my genuine apologies, i would have assumed that Japan fans would have felt the same way as me about me about DD and in that regard i was not imagining saying something contentious or likely to cause upset.

As to the groupie thing no i don't think you're a groupie site but well there is nonetheless with David sylvian in general a davy davy give us a wave brigade that would attend every concert and maybe get their picture taken with him and who at the end of the day are fans of sorts I suppose but I always be more in tune with'the type of fans who would know that say Mark Isham played with Van Morrison or David torn jan gubarek or appreciate Jon hassell's trumpeting.

As to the man himself i do recommend careful re-reading of his biopgraphy the last romantic. he does give some very good thoughts on new age music sometimes being a lazy uninspired medium. And that's important because at the end of the day that's what sets DS so well above his contemporaries in similar fields. he is about the most inspired man in music. And I think we'll all agree on that.

Anyway rant over,
be nice ot each other

[Silver Moon]

As to the groupie thing no i don't think you're a groupie site but well there is nonetheless with David sylvian in general a davy davy give us a wave brigade that would attend every concert and maybe get their picture taken with him and who at the end of the day are fans of sorts I suppose but I always be more in tune with'the type of fans who would know that say Mark Isham played with Van Morrison or David torn jan gubarek or appreciate Jon hassell's trumpeting.

Firstly, welcome back LibertyBoy! I hope you decide to give us a second chance...

You're right... There are a lot of Female (AND Male) fans on here that would love to shake the mans hand, get a picture with him, and post adoring comments under his pictures in the gallery... And we also do, very much, care about Jon Hassell's trumpeting and the various artists that Mark Isham has collaborated with! Many of us admire Mr. Sylvian on many different levels, and the 'looks & fangirly' part is the lighter side of it all... Do a little digging and you'll find the same swooning female fans analyzing Mr. Sylvian's song lyrics, asking about Mr. Barbieri's Synths & programming, Talking about their favorite Mick Karn collaborations, or mentioning that they now take Drum Lessons with inspiration from Steve Jansen!

... I guess that all I'm trying to say is that the fangirl/boyness you might have come across is really just a good way to express your affection for him, and most of all just have a good time posting with fellow friends on a Friday night. ... Us female fans just get the best of both worlds

-Kera-

[sisterlondon]

Well said Kera! I can be acused of being fangirly, yes I am! Though I am not stalkerish or freaky, No way I am one of those that stay in the same hotels of bands and wait for them at the breakfast room to say they had breakfast together and stuff like that. I know limits and I stay inside those. I for one love getting close to the bands I like, shaking their hand, have a picture and a sig... is that wrong? But I also buy their albums (buy way too many cds actually, heh) and love discussing the music, going to concerts, reading the credits to see who play where and who produced this album that also was playing guitar in this other... One thing doesn't imply I don't do the other.

Now, having said that, peace for everyone and welcome back liberty boy.

[Astronaut]

Many of us admire Mr. Sylvian on many different levels, and the 'looks & fangirly' part is the lighter side of it all... Do a little digging and you'll find the same swooning female fans analyzing Mr. Sylvian's song lyrics, asking about Mr. Barbieri's Synths & programming, Talking about their favorite Mick Karn collaborations, or mentioning that they now take Drum Lessons with inspiration from Steve Jansen!

... I guess that all I'm trying to say is that the fangirl/boyness you might have come across is really just a good way to express your affection for him, and most of all just have a good time posting with fellow friends on a Friday night. ... Us female fans just get the best of both worlds

-Kera-

Kera you have expressed my own thoughts perfectly! I am fully aware that I come across as a "swooning fangirlie" especially where Mick Karn, David and yes, Nick Rhodes are concerned however, these are opinions I express here a) because I know there are many like minded people on this forum, (b) because I am self aware enough to appreciate that it's quite amusing to still be a fan girlie after all these years (c) it's nice to be able to share lighthearted moments with friends. However, I can do 'serious' too, and I hope I've contributed something of interest whilst I've been a member here.

Sisterlondon: there's nothing wrong with getting a signature or a photo!!!

[anortherncod]

So I think we're agreed that we put this all behind us and start again!

Natasha