Your interest in Japan....

[BeehiveSecrets]

EDIT TO ADD: Beehive Secrets..compared to alot of other glam bands at the time, Japan were extremely mature.

oh my, i don't care about 'other glam bands', i care about Japan.

[sisterlondon]

The thing is that anything we say about music is going to be an opinion because it's related to taste. And taste is always subjective. I love David's solo albums, but I have never been able to totally digest Blemish, while for others it's a masterpiece.

I love some Japan songs more than some others that David has made, and then I think I prefer some JB or JBK stuff than some of David's. I just don't stop to compare or ponder if it's better or worse than this other thing the others have made. Do I like it? Fine, then it's for me and I will play it. That's all I need

[Sylvian's Beard]

EDIT TO ADD: Beehive Secrets..compared to alot of other glam bands at the time, Japan were extremely mature.

oh my, i don't care about 'other glam bands', i care about Japan.

Missing out on some great music.

[BeehiveSecrets]

EDIT TO ADD: Beehive Secrets..compared to alot of other glam bands at the time, Japan were extremely mature.

oh my, i don't care about 'other glam bands', i care about Japan.

Missing out on some great music.

...
now i see why you think David's solo is BORING. discussion closed from my part.

[Poisoned_Apathy]

The thing is that anything we say about music is going to be an opinion because it's related to taste. And taste is always subjective.

Thank you, Isa.

Fortunately, I enjoy Adolescent Sex as much as I enjoy all Sylvian solo stuff, so I don't have to waste my time in this pueril discussion...

and sorry, if I offend anybody.

[sisterlondon]

Thanks Poisoned, I agree!

As a journalist I know that nothing can be totally objective. Nothing is black or white, there are lots of shades of gray indeed

[BeehiveSecrets]

Thanks Poisoned, I agree!

As a journalist I know that nothing can be totally objective. Nothing is black or white, there are lots of shades of gray indeed

well said! :}

[Sylvian's Beard]

The thing is that anything we say about music is going to be an opinion because it's related to taste. And taste is always subjective.

...if I offend anybody.

Why should you care if they get their panties in a twist over something as trivial as a David Sylvian solo album?

EDIT TO ADD: Beehive Secrets..compared to alot of other glam bands at the time, Japan were extremely mature.

oh my, i don't care about 'other glam bands', i care about Japan.

Missing out on some great music.

...
now i see why you think David's solo is BORING. discussion closed from my part.

I hope you aren't confusing 'glam rock' with 'glam metal'...either way both have their fair share of amazing bands.

[Lady Arcadia]

Heck, I go to sleep and wake up to find a thread well alive and kicking!

I am the first to admit that David's work will not appeal to everyone, and that is OK. Some swear by Mick's solo stuff, some don't. Neither is better than each other, as musicians, in my mind. The only difference between them is they, as solo artists, produce music that appeals to different types of listeners. And as one has already mentioned, different moods.

As I mentioned earlier, my loyalty tends to lie with David. His music and his lyrics strike the right feeling with me. I have no problem with people not appreciating what he has produced as a solo artist, they can listen to work by other former members of Japan if they like. The only gripe I have ever had with Japan, and indeed the solo efforts of all, was they never truely got the success that their music undoubtably deserved.

[Burnsjed]

the first thread I have read on here where there has been some friction, which is surprising considering it's an internet forum, and most don't know one another (though there was some kind of misunderstanding/dispute on the U.S Tour thing)

For me, and again it's just about expressing an opinion (unfortunately some people do not appear to be able to differentiate between 'fact' and opinion. It is a fact that we have different tastes in music, and that the opinions we express, just because we believe in them, do not make them factual), this is what stands Sylvian out to Japan, and especially those first 2 albums.
As I have said before, I feel like I am one of the older members here, and was buying/listening to music when these records were released, and therefore listened to them in relation to what was going on at the time, and not retrospectively.

Adolescent Sex is crap (sorry to offend anyone, I own several versions of this in vinyl and on CD, being Japanese imports etc, but it just makes up the collection). There is not a single track on there that stands out, apart from how appalling Don't Rain On My Parade Is.

Obscure Alternatives though clearly better is also crap.
Though the track Obscure Alternatives, is one that sticks out, and later live versions of this where they brought it up to date, actually sounds quite good.

Quiet Life was a huge huge improvement, and compared to what other 'pop' bands were doing at the time, musically showed off the individual talents within the group, which came across in the arrangements, and structures of the songs.

Polaroid's (which is probably my favourite) was a continuation of Quiet Life as far as the bands development . As individuals they had clearly grown musically, and the composition of the songs showed a maturity way beyond anything else happening at the time. 'Swing' is just immense.

Tin Drum really showed the harmony between Jansen and Karn in the rhythm section, and the programming skills of Barbieri were shining through. The most interesting album keyboard sound wise, and this probably became their defining sound.


Brilliant Trees was such a leap musically from Tin Drum, it was as if the boy had become a man.
Sylvian's voice, through maturity, was starting to show the richness that he now shows in abundance. No signs of "boredom" on this album, well certainly not on the first side (4 tracks for those that only own it on CD).
He was quite clearly in inspired form, after being released by the 'limitations' of being in a band, and could tread his own path with out the internal conflicts and compromise that writing within a band brings.
Anyone that has been in a band (and I don't mean a cover one) will understand this.

Gone To Earth is my favourite Sylvian album. I really loved the musicians that he brought together for this project, and this is just about as perfect as any album could be.
Again he was really able to express himself musically here, some of the track lengths are mind blowing. Before The Bullfight and Wave both being over 9 minutes long! I also really enjoyed the instrumental pieces, which seemed to be an extension of Words With The Shaman.

Secrets Of The Beehive showed a definite slower pace to previous albums, which I guess some might find 'boring'.
Truth be known, there are some beautiful songs on here, which for me are highlighted on "Orpheus", Sylvian's voice is now showing a richness not seen on anything previous, that this track, for me, really highlights. A truly wonderful album.

I guess Rain Tree Crow should come next, though it obviously wasn't a solo project, but I am going in chronological order.
This album is a very sad one for me, I was so delighted that they had patched up their differences (well DS & MK anyway, though this had been preempted by Sylvian's appearance on Karn's 2nd album) and have to agree with Sylvian that it is the best album they produced as a group, all be it under another name, and I absolutely love "Every Colour You Are".
It underlined the problems that Sylvian has working in a group project for me, he needs total control, and the others felt they had matured enough to have their own say! Sylvian is also on the record as saying that this project should have ran a lot longer, but unfortunately there is only one person to blame for that, and I think we all don't need reminding of who that is.

Then there was the collaboration with Robert Fripp, that seemed very strange. I don't mean that he was working with Fripp, as he has done this before, but there was a happiness and energy that he hadn't shown previously. I don't know if the aftermath of RTC pushed him in to this, he wasn't even speaking to Steve for a long time after that, and he needed some fun again, but this is unlike any other Sylvian project.
There are some very good tracks on here, but it is not one that I go back to that often, in fact my favourite songs that came from this collaboration are not even on the studio album, but performed live, being "Damage" and "The First Day", and those are two of my favourites.

Things went a bit wrong after here, in my eyes anyway, and I am not exactly sure what happened with DBOAC.
Sure there are a few wonderful moments on there, but not enough to put this up with the rest of his albums, though "Darkest dreaming" is very powerful and "Wanderlust" also is a very strong track.

If things had seemed wrong with DBOAC WTF happened with "Blemish"!
Of course later hearing about the break up of his marriage etc, it put that in context, and now I really like this album. "The Heart Knows Better" and "A Fire In The Forest" are as good as anything he has written.

Then there is the more recent material with Nine Horses that seems to have found Sylvian back on the same path pre DBOAC. Though I found it slightly vanilla on my first hearing, I think this was due to "Blemish", and I was really expecting his musical direction to carry on a really experimental path, I love this album now.

So though I was supposedly pointing out why for me Sylvian's solo work is infinitely better then Japan, and I have waffled on giving a blow by blow account of his albums, I guess I need to draw a conclusion!

His voice is so much richer then his Japan days, and on those first two albums his vocals sound contrived.
Musically they are a World apart. He has been very clever in surrounding himself with excellent musicians (not suggesting the members of Japan were not, as they were) that gave diversification musically to his compositions, something that couldn't happen in the constraints of a band.

Disclaimer: Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the "Silver Moon Forum".

[The Analog Kid]

thanks for yr extensive review here of the DS catalogue and I mostly agree - ie only latter day Japan is of any interest to me but the DS solo ones are the sole reason for signing up to this forum

cheers

Eric

[proggrl]

though there was some kind of misunderstanding/dispute on the U.S Tour thing

That would be me and I do apologize again to all who had to read and endure my rant and most especially to those my rant was aimed at and to those who THOUGHT my rant was aimed towards them.

Hey Burnsjed!

With the exception of DBOAC - which I think is a beautiful album, I agree almost completely with you.

AS and OA I found a bit laughable at first. I got into the band at Tin Drum and sort of worked my way backwards with them. So the first two albums took me a bit by surprise. Now I think they can be a good bit of fun, whereas I find the later Japan albums and the solo material to be a bit more serious and fulfilling. Maybe that's where Rhodesia32 is at - just out for some fun albums and not interested in music of quality and sustenance, which is fine.

Personally speaking, the solo DS albums give me such a feeling of elation (even though they have been known, especially recently, to evoke feelings of extreme sadness) and are so powerfully beautiful that I could never say they are BORING. I totally agree with Vapors assessment tho of how much he has expanded musically, in fact I think that's evident for all the members in their solo careers. Each has put out quality product and have surrounded themselves with amazing musicians and each is so diverse that you never know what to expect - except great music.

And yes, Secrets of the Beehive IS a Masterpiece!!!

Peace.

[Cheery Cherry]

I agree with Ellyn. I couldn't have said it better.

Heck, I go to sleep and wake up to find a thread well alive and kicking!

I am the first to admit that David's work will not appeal to everyone, and that is OK. Some swear by Mick's solo stuff, some don't. Neither is better than each other, as musicians, in my mind. The only difference between them is they, as solo artists, produce music that appeals to different types of listeners. And as one has already mentioned, different moods.

As I mentioned earlier, my loyalty tends to lie with David. His music and his lyrics strike the right feeling with me. I have no problem with people not appreciating what he has produced as a solo artist, they can listen to work by other former members of Japan if they like. The only gripe I have ever had with Japan, and indeed the solo efforts of all, was they never truely got the success that their music undoubtably deserved.

[heartofdavid]

For me, there's nothing more boring in a discussion than to have everyone agree in their opinions. Actually, that kills any purpose in having a discussion. It's diversity and contrast in points of view that make for an interesting conversation.

When you're talking about taste in music, it is subjective. It's what is pleasing to one person's ears versus anothers. You can put as much analysis and fact as you want in supporting your opinion but I don't think that will ever make anyone change their opinion about what they do or don't like. As an example, it's like trying to convince someone that red is the best color ever, how dare they prefer blue! Don't they know red is more sensitive and sophisticated! Well that may indeed be so based on scientific data, the latest poll or whatever, but they will still like blue.

With music you can point out the subtleties of the arrangement, the maturity and poetic nature of the lyrics, the resonance and tone of a voice, etc. as compared to other music, and in my opinion none of that is definitive as to why "this song is good and that one isn't."

Case in point for me is the song Ghosts. Nobody will ever convince me that it's a good song. I simply don't like it, but I can see why other people might. Doesn't mean my opinion is wrong or that their's is better and more profound.

I find it very interesting to hear the 'personal why' behind opinions.

[Sylvian's Beard]

Burnsjed...while I appreciate the lengthy rundown, your post makes you come off as a bit of a music elitist. How can you completely write off two albums that are integral parts of JAPAN history. Is there any specific reasons why you don't like those two albums? Japan is one of the few bands that I can see a very defined, and gradual evolution of their music. For this reason I don't really value 'AS' anymore than 'Tin Drum'.

I think that David tries to play up his new wave cred too much sometimes. He never has the greatest things to say about 'AS'...it seems like he was ashamed of that era or something.