sylvian by Betty Page 81

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sylvian by Betty Page 81

Postby billster on Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:34 am

Japan: The Part Of Arties
Betty Page, Sounds, 6 June 1981

LIFE WITHIN buildings: being shut in a dimly-lit, secluded studio with David Sylvian. Sounds like a scenario straight out of a Nipponese schoolgirl's fantasy, but this was no Oriental inquisition.

Bespectacled, dapper Mr. S. was not the intense, humourless character I'd expected to meet (don't believe all you read!) Introspective certainly, but with a gentle wit and easy going manner that made this less of an interview situation and more like a pleasant conversation.

David's current happy, relaxed state is attributable directly to the level of success Japan are enjoying after their recent tour, which has seen the band shed their surrounding aura of tension and strain for an optimism about their immediate future.

Just another period of ups and downs that have affected this band over their four year career, a career that has been full of contradictions, of success and failure, reward and punishment.

David spoke of his reactions towards press, audience, band and and music with the air of maturity that belied his age. The art of (parties) conversation began.

IT DOES seem that things are falling together for Japan now...

David: "It seems like we can't do anything wrong – for ourselves – we still do things wrong for the press I think.

"The time immediately after Quiet Life was a very bad period, nothing seemed right, everything felt wrong, it felt like we were pushing it, and because of the record company change, which took a long time, it seemed to build up to a point which climaxed at the Lyceum gig.

"That was the last disaster and ever since then it's got better, as has the feeling within the band."

It's not just that though is it – the atmosphere's right now for what you're doing in this country.

"The audience has changed quite a bit, because of the futurist interest, people began associating us with it, saying we started it off, so a lot of kids have been coming along, doing the whole posing bit, which is unfortunate. But they went away having really enjoyed it."

I didn't think you had that much of a fashion conscious audience before?

"No, but in Edinburgh, say, the audience wasn't like that at all, it was very black and white, an uncolourful audience if you like.

"I'm not against the idea of them dressing up, I just don't like the crowd who come along to pose and be seen rather than to see the show."

But they did seem to be enjoying the music rather than just looking at you on a purely physical level, as they do in Japan

"If that starts happening in England I'll probably stop doing it altogether, I'll give up! It's not satisfying at all, there's nothing in it. The first time it happened in Japan it as fun, it was interesting, but you go away feeling that you haven't done anything.

"Towards the end of a show you start wondering why you're standing there playing with kids just screaming through all the numbers – it becomes witless. I don't think that would ever happen in England, at least I hope it wouldn't

"Japan seems to be the only country left with that sort of hysteria. The magazines provoke that whole idolising thing, because rock music over there is just entertainment."

As you've repeated many times your musical aims are serious and it is completely at odds with that.

"The thing is, I don't take live shows that seriously anyway, not at the moment, not until I do something I'm really happy with. The shows at the moment are just basic formula, there's nothing new.

"Mick and Steve look at it in totally different way, they find it more creative than being in the studio. I think it's just going through the motions...but people say it's our fault for sticking to such a strict formula on stage."

Have you ever considered trying anything different, visually?

"I've got ideas. I certainly don't want to go back on the road with these shows again. All we ever tried to do was recreate the atmosphere of the records, just totally atmospheric mood pieces.

"I'd like to involve film a lot more, not just slides or films that take second place, but a film as an equal part of the show. We were thinking of doing an ambient one-off show, doing tracks like 'Despair' and 'Nightporter' and showing films with that.

"If that worked out, maybe could adapt it to go with the live shows. At the moment I've had enough of playing live."

It must have seemed strange playing two nights at Hammersmith without being a major name

"The promoters were amazed as well, they said not even big name bands sell out two nights nowadays. I can't understand it, it seems to be a contradiction.

"Maybe a lot of people are coming out of curiosity because we've never played that much, to see what's happening. But hopefully they'll buy the records as well."

The mood of Art Of Parties has clicked with what's going on as well – was that intentional?

"No, not at all. Changes are instinctive; if you begin to think about changing, it doesn't work. It can work for me but it wouldn't for the rest of the band because we seem to move at equal stages.

"We've always used that music as a basic, it's just more obvious on that track. But we've been wanting to do that for a long time – something really funky – because the last two albums had the whole muzak thing. The idea was to totally break away from that and do something really dynamic.

"The last two albums were meant to sound very neutral, for us as background music; but now we're trying to do totally the opposite and irritate people, using sounds that are very aggressive rather than very soft.

Is that it as far as Japan are concerned with regard to atmospheric music, are you going to move away from reflective music to more organic dance music?

"I'm not so bothered whether it's danceable or not. I can't really get away from the mood thing 'cause it's built-in. 'Life Without Buildings' you could say is still in keeping with what we were doing on Polaroids but it falls into the same category as 'Parties', that track seems to be pointing the direction more. Although it seems to be in contradition to what I've said because it's easy to listen to.

"The basic idea behind that track is that it sounds very traditional. Both of those tracks are very rhythmic – It's going to be a very rhythm-orientated album."

WHAT'S happening with Rob (Dean) now – has he definitely left the band?

"With Rob, the basic thing was that on Polaroids and even Quiet Life I felt I was holding him back 'cause I had specific ideas for the guitar and I kept imposing them on him all the time.

"It would take hours in the studio because I'd be pushing him maybe a little against what he'd want to do.

"It came to a peak on Polaroids as Rob only played on about four tracks. I thought about it afterwards and decided I wasn't being fair to him, if he wasn't actually a member of the band he could go out and work with other people, and if he's available at the time we need him we can still work together.

"He loved the idea. I don't know how interested he is in music now, he still has his basic interest but I think he's far more into photography now.

"I know he doesn't intend to join or form another band. He did some pictures for the tour programme, and an album cover, so it seems to be the career he'd like to follow."

Were you not actually happy with Polaroids in the end?

"I'm happy with how it sounds – the thing is that I was growing out of it before we'd finished it, we worked on it for too long. I'd begun to pull away from muzak, I was ready to start on something like 'Parties', only at that time I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do."

AFTER ALL the changes you've been through, do you feel you're coming to an optimum level?

"No, I'm never that sure of what I'm doing. As I'm doing things, l always think it's the best thing I've done. But I know exactly what I'm doing now, whereas at the time of Adolescent Sex I didn't. I thought I did, I thought I knew what I wanted but it was totally wrong.

"If I'd been successful then in England I would have been a totally different person, my whole attitude to my work would have changed.

"If everything goes well and we are successful here and break other countries, I know how to work it, as far as l can plan – but I don't like planning too far ahead."

I suppose it's been an advantage having broken big in one country – it prepares you for success, if it must be done in stages.

"The thing is that if we were as successful worldwide as we are in Japan, we'd be really uninteresting, the best part of being in a band is building and growing. If you have a very large audience which isn't worth getting bigger, there's very little interest left.

"The whole stimulation in a band is a challenge, to keep challenging yourself all the time. I think in that situation I'd break it all down, do something totally off the wall and see what happened."

It's certainly been a challenge in this country

"It's been a battle, really difficult. I think it's because, first of all, that first album put an awful lot of people off, and nobody listened to the next three albums.

"Also the exposure has been so limited. In four years, we've been on television once, and on a couple of radio shows. I don't know why – record companies were always trying to get us on TV 'cause we were very visual.

"In the beginning we were criticised for being too visual – someone at the BBC said that. Now it's the opposite, now we've toned it down, we 're too bland!"

This country is very blinkered in its attitudes – once people get an initial impression about a person or band, they won't change their minds.

"Yes, definitely. Although I never expected to be accepted by the press or critically acclaimed. I always seemed to like what the critics hated, so I thought when I start making records, they'd all say mine were awful too. I thought the music press would be fair, though, which I was wrong about.

"When someone's criticising your album, you tend to forget that they might be prejudiced about, say, men wearing make-up, and that they might build up all these things around you before they've even heard the album, and there's still people out there that take that as gospel. I wish some of the kids out there could see the journalists that are writing the crap!"

It was definitely your image that upset them, but everyone seems to accept that an outrageous image is essential nowadays

"It seems as if a lot of the press simply aren't accepting it at all. I find it a shame that it's all gone back to cabaret, the theatrical side of it, like glam rock, but I love the way some of the kids dress now.

"I really wish they'd dress like it from the time they got up to the time they went to bed instead of sticking the clothes on to turn up in some club.

"Clothes are such an important part of a person, it shows such a big part of your character. But the fashion thing is a very positive thing, the whole thing feels that way."

Did that positive thing inspire you at all?

"Well, it happened to us as a band after the Lyceum, it all seemed to pour a breath of life back into us, I don't know where it came from. I think it was because we were actually thinking of splitting up, so when we tried something again it was so loose we felt quite refreshed. But as a rule, I don't get a lot out of England inspiration-wise.

"I tend to live five days a week in my flat, I never go out, but when I'm abroad I go out all the time. That's what 'Life Without Buiidings' is about really, it's like in the city, people are so insular, they build a wall around themselves and live inside.

"When we were in Bangkok, which is where I got all the ideas from, everybody lives outside, on their doorsteps, which is a wonderful thing. But it wouldn't work in England – we don't have a good community atmosphere."

That worries me about this country – one of our major problems is a general lack of communication.

"People brought up in England – and I was brought up in the same atmosphere – are never really told that there's a world outside, you think everything revolves around this country, and you've got to be successful in England.

"Some people don't even get to that stage – they want to be a failure, but they want to be a failure in England – why not go to a different part of the world and be a failure, it's more interesting! I think England's losing a lot of its identity.

Identity is something you as a band have been able to develop in your own time – musically, you've matured too. You've certainly never been trendy

"I've never liked the idea of being the 'in-thing', it must be horrible to find your face on the front of every magazine for about two years and then disappear.

"In the beginning, people said the image of Japan was overriding the music, but we never pushed the image that much, it was the press that picked up on it. At the time people said 'Life in Tokyo' was behind the times, now they say it's ahead of its time, you just go round in circles."

By now, you must be heartily sick of the Roxy comparisons – I can't believe people haven't acknowledged that you have a distinctive style.

"Again, it's something we've suffered from from the start. It wasn't always Roxy Music, it was a lot of other things. I really have been compared to so many people, that if I was just a little piece of each one I'd be a genius!

"There's been Bowie, Ferry, New York Dolls, Warhol, Oscar Wilde, Bridget Bardot and Debbie Harry! I don't think they'll ever run out. they must have a little black book of comparisons."

You've suffered from copyists too, over the years.

"A couple of bands have taken things from us and adopted them, but their attitudes are different, so the end result isn't the same. The only funny thing is that bands who've taken things from us are more successful than we are, so we're beginning to think something's wrong!

"I think one of the most satisfying things is to influence another person – not just with music, but influencing somebody into doing something – photography, writing, whatever. It's much better than personal success, as it lasts longer, that feeling of achievement."

So what would you really like to see happening in this country?

"A difficult question...I don't think about things like that! It's happened already I think, the audience are ahead of my expectations now.

"Before, they were behind, now they've taken a giant leap and it's made the four years worthwhile. If they'd grown as gradually as before, we'd have been going for another four years before this had happened.

"I really feel 'Parties 'is a good single, and that we've got a long way to go to reach a new peak, as with Quiet Life – it would be nice for us to be on the crest of a wave.

"On the other hand, it doesn't have to be much more successful than it is now, all I really want is to have enough money to put into more ideas involving the band. There's never enough to take
a risk with."

You've passed the crossroads?

"Yes – I know what I'm doing, I feel comfortable again, more relaxed. The main word in my last interview was tense – it was there, we all felt it. Now we feel more excited about working than we have for a long time.

"The new album will be done in stages, built up gradually, with the idea to use as many outside musicians as possible, to get that freeform feel, so a musician can walk in, be told there's eight bars to fill, play what you like. If you pick the right people, it should work well."

You seem to be moving back toward your roots.

"Yeah, whatever music you're brought up on, you always get back to it. I always thought we were very lucky to pick up on black music first – most people of our age picked up on the glam rock thing, Bolan and all. We like that too, but because black music came first, that's what we resort to."

But you'll still be pursuing the mood angle?

"Definitely. I was influenced an awful lot by Satie, but I've milked him dry after 'Nightporter'. People like Satie and Warhol influenced me a lot, but I don't really like their art that much, just the ideas behind it. I adopt their ideas and apply it to my work.

"Somehow their ideas don't work out quite right, so I do it my way, to make up for the fact that they didn't do it right! It's the same with classical music – there's something I still want to do with it.

"I don't really like it, there's just certain aspects which I do like, so I'd like to do a piece of classical music which I've always wanted to hear but has never been written.

"I love repetition. I love things that just go on and on and on – I've based nearly everything we've done on that. If you repeat any sound constantly, as long as it's pleasant or interesting, it becomes hypnotic. The same with Warhol and his soup cans.

"The idea is to take the listener and draw them in – then the listener goes off on a parallel of their own, taking in the essence without really listening to the music, which I think is the most important way to listen to music.

"Then they begin to associate the sounds they're hearing with things in their own lives, fantasies in their lives, and that's when a piece of music becomes really personal to you.

"That's what I always try to do. It may sound clumsy, but you can't put it into words. It's just worth it to see someone go off into their own world."

HOW APT to conclude with the Sylvian art of personal entertainment. In his quest for musics to accompany lifestyles, David is planning to diversify his talents into other areas, such as the theatre, and plans to go and live in Japan at the end of this year – perhaps to learn to live without buildings. This gentleman can certainly take a lot more than polaroids. Domo origato, David-san.
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Postby godisinthesilences on Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:10 am

i have this article in my collection! Interesting read so many years later isn't it?
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Postby E.T. on Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:21 pm

I have another Betty (Bettie?) Page interview. David's interview, written in Japanese, Viva Rock 1983 March, seems like interviewed in Japan (country), after Bamboo Music, it says David lives in Tokyo for a month.
when I noticed interviewer's name, I was surprised, I just saw the movie of Bettie Page. "is she that notorious Bettie Page? :shock: " or only pen name?
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Postby proggrl on Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:40 pm

"People brought up in England – and I was brought up in the same atmosphere – are never really told that there's a world outside, you think everything revolves around this country, and you've got to be successful in England.


Ahhhhhhhh.... so it's ENGLAND and not the US that thinks it's the center of the world. :| It all makes sense now. Thank you, David! :-D






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Postby heartofdavid on Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:54 pm

Thanks for sharing this interview - he doesn't come across much different from today.
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Postby godisinthesilences on Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:41 pm

proggrl wrote:
"People brought up in England – and I was brought up in the same atmosphere – are never really told that there's a world outside, you think everything revolves around this country, and you've got to be successful in England.


Ahhhhhhhh.... so it's ENGLAND and not the US that thinks it's the center of the world. :| It all makes sense now. Thank you, David! :-D


HA HA you were thinking the same thing I was.... LOL
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Postby E.T. on Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:56 pm

thank you for sharing it, billster. I managed to read half of it now... haha

I like this part:
"The thing is that if we were as successful worldwide as we are in Japan, we'd be really uninteresting, the best part of being in a band is building and growing. If you have a very large audience which isn't worth getting bigger, there's very little interest left.
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Postby Meyrav on Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:26 pm

Thank you Billster! I enjoyed reading this.
I like it when he said:
"But I love the way some of the kids dress now.
I really wish they'd dress like it from the time they got up to the time they went to bed instead of sticking the clothes on to turn up in some club"

Ok David. I promise I will!!
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