Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

[ScottR]

Would you consider it equally judgmental to ridicule an artist because of his choice of album cover

I guess that depends...

[missouriman]

Would you consider it equally judgmental to ridicule an artist because of his choice of album cover

I guess that depends...

They are hot.

[Tim91]

I really don't like the judgemental tone of this thread either

Are you actually saying that I am judgmental because I am simply spreading the negative responses from a certain minority of fans who have gone over the edge with their displeasure towards David Sylvian and the EAI musicians he chose to work with on this new project? Is it wrong for me to comment on their overwrought reactions?
Would you consider it equally judgmental to ridicule an artist because of his choice of album cover rather than actually hearing the music... or even consider him to be fair game simply due to the fact that he happens to share a real name with a completely different musician who has opted to change his name?

It's nothing you did exactly. I just think there is a very negative air to this thread and that we don't need a secret police scouring the web for (often stupid) critisisms of David Sylvian. Not because your are opinions are wrong (I often agree) it's just that it could make this entire forum an unpleasant place if we have to worry about every word we type. We should all feel free to express ourselves without worrying too much of some one elses wrath (baht habit ). I'd just like a little more light-heartedness on this forum.
opps I just dug myself into a hole
but I do like that album cover! That's what I'm talking about!

[Tim91]

Are you actually saying that I am judgmental

now that I think about it...you are

[baht habit]

Are you actually saying that I am judgmental

now that I think about it...you are

Fair enough. I'm sorry that you are reading this thread with that view on things, yet I will contend that I have no intention of focusing any 'wrath' on any board members that I am aware of. That being said, I'll accept that you find me judgmental. Yet you were surely just as judgmental, if not even more so, while taking shots at some well-intentioned but destined to remain unknown musician named Steven Jansen for the cover of his album and for actually using his real name. Did you think about keeping things light hearted then, before you decided to join in with that ridicule?
Please don't get all high and mighty with me.

[DeMarkov]

Would you consider it equally judgmental to ridicule an artist because of his choice of album cover

I guess that depends...

They are hot.

hahaha, hotter than helllll!

[BobbyVey]

LOL actually they were TOO hot, that's why that was theirs last album before 14-years brake
Anyway this is my first post ever here and because I kinda like this particular thread, I'll begin here instead of classic 'introduce myself' thread...

I've been following Japan since first time I heard 'Quiet Life'/'European Son' material in '81 and later David and Steve as well as Mick in all theirs solo stuff and collaboratives. Since then, I still didn't found anything that leaves me completely cold and indifferent. I must admit though, Manafon is the first Sylvian's achievement in this department. Interesting material, worth listening for few times, but not much feeling touched, no overwhelmed senses, at all.

The verses on Manafon are beautiful indeed but would be much more pleasant to be listened if the music background would reached my hart, but it didn't. We are mortal people, we all want, more or less, recognizable forms of music we can enjoy, not only bunch of random noises with very constrained implications of actual so-called 'music'. I don't say it's rubbish and I still can't compare it with some senseless types of music like rap or something....
but definitely he didn't reach my heart there, maybe only some outer brain layers, that's all....

I still love him, 'cause I know some great songs and music are still to come, even after this 'experiment' which I really respect. For instance, the most of 'Blemish' is actually very far from blemish, some tracks are just master pieces, like 'Late Night Shopping' (pure touch of minimalistic Genius), also all stuff from Nine Horses is perfect, sometimes even commercial!
'Money for All' and 'Get The Hell out' could be kinda hits, if only these times were a little different.

The only think I actually don't like about David is his constant tendency to separate himself from his old work. After he split with Japan he stated he don't wont to know anything about his Japan work, especially their glam rock phase, well, except 'Ghosts' maybe
In '90s he was almost ashamed with Japan and other early solo works, which were really brilliant, only not completely mature and 'his own', imo. In '00s and nowdays he's been claiming anything before year 2k is shallow, uncomplete and essentially, bad work.
Why David, why are u so afraid to admit that, as long as ur evolving into one of the greatest contemporary musicians and authors, ur also ageing. Maybe this is the main reason why he always ignores the past, it's just a generation gap, who knows...

Anyway, I'm glad I found this forum and got an opportunity to express some thoughts about DS and all 'Japanese guys'

[baht habit]

Welcome aboard BobbyVey. I am somewhat honored that you chose this thread in order to introduce yourself. You made some excellent points. I hope you post here often.
Regarding Sylvian's penchant for dismissing his work from the past, I can't help but think that this is something he feels he must do for himself - as almost a ritual - in order to maintain that certain determination to keep moving forward with his music rather than contentedly looking back or allowing himself to become complacent - which might lead to repetition or stasis. I'll agree that it is rather odd to observe an artist blatantly show such disrespect to his previous creations, but we probably shouldn't let it disturb us one bit. Again, I think this is ritual for him in order to maintain a certain mindset.

What should disturb us is seeing the once mighty Greg Lake with his hands on his hips and his shirt tied in a knot at the bottom. Oh my, that is disturbing.

[Tim91]

Are you actually saying that I am judgmental

now that I think about it...you are

Fair enough. I'm sorry that you are reading this thread with that view on things, yet I will contend that I have no intention of focusing any 'wrath' on any board members that I am aware of. That being said, I'll accept that you find me judgmental. Yet you were surely just as judgmental, if not even more so, while taking shots at some well-intentioned but destined to remain unknown musician named Steven Jansen for the cover of his album and for actually using his real name. Did you think about keeping things light hearted then, before you decided to join in with that ridicule?
Please don't get all high and mighty with me.

HAha that ENTIRE Steve Jansen thing was a joke, though I admit it was mean spirited.
and I do find myself hypocritical for calling you judgemental because yes I'm being judgemebtal myself but anyways lets stop our petty arguements and let's end on something we'll agree on: David Sylvian is a fantastic musician

[jon abbey]

some senseless types of music like rap

ugh.

[tracycowell]

who cares you either like it or you dont, end of. i hate it by the way

[baht habit]

lets stop our petty arguements and let's end on something we'll agree on: David Sylvian is a fantastic musician

Well, actually Tim, I am not having any petty argument with you - I was only attempting to defend myself from your accusation that I am judgmental. And I wanted to prove a point that what sometimes brings amusement can also be considered mean-spirited. I do admit that I find some amusement from this minority of fans who have gone off the deep end with their anger towards Sylvian over his newest release - and it is only those who fall under the criteria which I specified elsewhere on this thread.
Let me explain my true reason behind this thread, because it seems to have been misconstrued a little. For anyone who considers me nothing more than a blind defender or overly loyal follower of Sylvian, that is simply not accurate. I don't always enjoy all of his music equally, for some of his music is much more easier on the ears and other experiments are much more challenging - and not everything is going to appeal to everyone. What I am defending is Sylvian's right to experiment with his music in any manner he pleases. And I will always defend any creative musician over any listener - especially when the listener has the gall to blame the musician for making music that does not appeal to them. The listener has the choice to simply turn it off and ignore it. And for those who are preoccupied with sales and the like, the consumer always has the option not to purchase the product. Some level headed people have done exactly that and in this case, a ton of credit should go to those for being mature enough to conclude that Manafon was not created to please their particular sensibilities. Yet this certain minority of fans which I have documented here mainly expresses the emotion that Sylvian does not have the right to step outside of this box they have put him in....this mold they have cast for him in their minds - which doesn't actually fit any logic at all, since Sylvian has never established himself as an artist who could easily be stereotyped in the first place. To them, he should be compelled to entertain them with similar sounds that entertained them in the past - that should be his main priority and in their minds, any other objective is either pretentious or selfish on the part of Sylvian. And so when they are not entertained, they have become overly vocal in their criticism...rather than simply choosing not to purchase the product and ignore it because it does not appeal to them. They don't respect the right of the artist to follow the musical path of his choosing. They are spiteful and they want everyone to be fully aware of their disappointment because in their minds, Sylvian has 'lost it' because the music does not follow the formula of his past recordings. And I can't help but defend any musician over any listener who demands that they stick to a formula.

[ScottR]

How about this one...

[neonico]

I dont want to get into the big argument here but i have to agree that and artist should remain as an artist

with his own free spirit.

when someone is a painter no one says anything when the style changes the painting is either purchased or not...

i find it a shame that muscians dont have this freedom without a large amount of critic........

[tulipmania]

I must admit to being a devoted Sylvian fan throughout the last 20+ years. Ive grown to like and love nearly all of his material and changes in musical style. I have to say that I really dont like Manafon and I dont listen to any more. I think he has made an artistic mistake that will only come to light as time passes. Im not expecting him to stay the same but I think its clear from this bulletin board that a lot of longstanding fans have been patient, open-minded and are now disappointed.