Eurovision

Off-topic area for general discussion of NON-Japan/Sylvian related subjects.

Postby Melaszka on Tue May 27, 2008 4:23 am

anortherncod wrote:
karnsculpture wrote:
My dad thinks some voters might have chosen other artists because Andy is black.


I didn't see it, but I'd be inclined to agree with your dad.

I think Leona Lewis was the first non-white person to win a talent competition in recent years, and without meaning any disrespect to her, she is light-skinned enough for a lot of white people to find her acceptable - look at the actors who are or were in soaps (Angela Griffin, Craig Charles, etc). The lighter-skinned you are the more acceptable you are, it seems.

You may all have guessed that with the Halle Berry comparisons I'm actually mixed race myself, and I could go on about this all night, but I'll get off my soapbox and leave my ambition to follow in Martin Luther King's footsteps till tomorrow!

Natasha


I'm glad you raised this, Natasha, because it hadn't occurred to me before and I'm absolutely shocked that voters are so narrow-minded in the 21st century.

I'm not a regular viewer of TV talent contests (unless you count Eurovision), so it's difficult for me to comment. A friend made me watch an episode of the X Factor the year that Andy was in it, and I thought that both he and Maria had much, much better voices than the person who won, but I assumed that it was their age that had counted against them, not their race (the X Factor has a large teenage audience and older contestants rarely win). But I caught the end of "I'd Do Anything" the other week by accident while waiting for something else to come on and I was surprised that the black Nancy was voted off, when she was patently better than most of the others.

When it comes to TV actors, it annoys me that black and Asian actors usually seem to be cast in supporting roles, rarely the main part, unless the drama is actually about race. And it really annoys me that you rarely see black and Asian actors in adverts.

But having said that, I've met a lot of black and Asian actors who believe that their ethnicity actually gives them an advantage over white actors in finding TV work, as the BBC and Channel 4 have strong multicultural casting policies (not that that's necessarily a good thing, it can be very patronising - I know one excellent actress who often complains that she wants to get roles "because I'm good, not just because I'm brown"). And Ray Fearon, Adrian Lester, Josette Simon amongst others have all done major primetime roles, despite not being as pale skinned as Griffin and Charles. So I need to think about this.

Going back to Eurovision, I think it is the introduction of televoting that has led to odd results, not the decision to let the former Communist countries in. As you've demonstrated, Western audiences, too, are liable to use televotes to exercise all their personal prejudices and biases, rather than to vote for the person they genuinely thought was the best.
Melaszka
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:05 pm
Location: Somerset, UK

Postby anortherncod on Tue May 27, 2008 4:51 am

I know it's not ALWAYS the case that black actors are sidelined in favour of mixed-race ones, but I do remember seeing a documentary many years ago which did confirm my suspicions that it can and does happen. Among the participants was the actor who was in Brookside - can't remember his name now, but he was the 'dad' of the 'black' family on Brookside Close, except that he, the 'mum' and the two 'children' were obviously mixed-race.

In my own personal experience mixed-race people are often seen to be more acceptable because it's felt they have more 'in common' with the indigenous white population, to the extent that - in my case - I've had people making racist remarks about black people to me and I have to underline what my own ethnic background is, whereupon they say things like, "Oh, I didn't mean you". (Revenge is sweet because then I get to watch them squirm!)

Ethnic minorities are rarely in adverts because we don't fit into the marketing view of the perfect consumer, do we? :wink: There was a cereal advert not so long ago with a Deaf lady signing what was great about the cereal in question, which I liked, but she wasn't the only person in the advert.

Anyway, this is completely off-topic now... :oops:

Natasha
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
anortherncod
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:05 am
Location: London, UK

Postby Melaszka on Tue May 27, 2008 8:22 am

The most interesting discussions on this forum generally are the ones that veer off-topic. I wish you wouldn't post such stimulating comments that I want to respond to, because I've got stacks of work to do!

You are probably right about mixed-race people being more "acceptable" than blacks to a lot of white people, but I think it's very depressing.
You'd kind of hoep we would have moved beyond that by now.

I concede that racism and political voting were probably both factors in Andy's coming last. I still think, though, that more significant factors were:

1. Comparatively boring stage show. Having something visually attention-grabbing has always helped, even before the introduction of televoting. Even Bucks Fizz themselves admit they wouldn't have won if they hadn't taken ther skirts off. And Lordi probably wouldn't have won without the monster make-up. And the Turkish woman that won a few years ago probably wouldn't have won without the staggering belly-dancing routine.

2. Position in the running order. Statistically 2nd is the slot least likely to win, because everyone's forgotten what your song was like by the time they get to the end. Everyone remembers the first song, simply because it was first, but after that, the nearer you are to the end, the more likely you are to win.

3. Being completely unknown outside the UK. As I said before, some of the other contestants were established artists who'd had hits in other European countries.
Melaszka
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:05 pm
Location: Somerset, UK

Postby anortherncod on Tue May 27, 2008 8:51 am

Melaszka wrote:The most interesting discussions on this forum generally are the ones that veer off-topic. I wish you wouldn't post such stimulating comments that I want to respond to, because I've got stacks of work to do!

You are probably right about mixed-race people being more "acceptable" than blacks to a lot of white people, but I think it's very depressing.
You'd kind of hoep we would have moved beyond that by now.


Right, well stop reading this RIGHT NOW and get on with some work, young lady :wink:

My last point is a short one - yes, would be nice if we had moved beyond that point, but now, in addition to racism directed at brown people, we also have racism directed at other white people after the EU accession of countries like Poland and Lithuania - which you've mentioned earlier in this thread. Yippee, two DIFFERENT kinds of racism to contend with... sigh.

All in all, if Mick had entered Eurovision, he would have done us all a favour wouldn't he? :lol:

Natasha
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
anortherncod
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:05 am
Location: London, UK

Postby Melaszka on Tue May 27, 2008 10:36 am

anortherncod wrote:My last point is a short one - yes, would be nice if we had moved beyond that point, but now, in addition to racism directed at brown people, we also have racism directed at other white people after the EU accession of countries like Poland and Lithuania - which you've mentioned earlier in this thread. Yippee, two DIFFERENT kinds of racism to contend with... sigh.


Absolutely. There was a horrifying article in one of the Polish newspapers the other week about some of the blatantly offensive anti-Polish stories that have appeared in British tabloids recently (e.g. alleging that Poles are killing and eating swans and goldfish in public parks, that they can't be trusted around British women as sexual assault is considered acceptable in their country etc.) It was pointed out that some of the papers concerned were printing exactly the same kind of stories about Jews in the 30s and 40s and about black people in the 60s and 70s. Now that anti-racism legislation means they can't print these kinds of rabble-rousing lies about those ethnic groups, they've simply moved onto Poles (not covered by legislation because they're white) and Muslims (not covered because they're a religious group, not an ethnic one). (The article also pointed out that they do tend to attack Poles, not Lithuanians, because the average reader of most of these rags is too ignorant to know where Lithuania is!) Made me ashamed to be British.

All in all, if Mick had entered Eurovision, he would have done us all a favour wouldn't he? :lol:


Ah, well, if eh hurries, he can still register his entry for next year.

Right, well stop reading this RIGHT NOW and get on with some work, young lady :wink:


I'm going, I'm going
Melaszka
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:05 pm
Location: Somerset, UK

Postby Astronaut on Tue May 27, 2008 2:47 pm

anortherncod wrote:All in all, if Mick had entered Eurovision, he would have done us all a favour wouldn't he? :lol:

Natasha


Melaszka wrote:Ah, well, if eh hurries, he can still register his entry for next year.


I know you ladies are joking, but, pur-lease, leave Mick out of this squalid, neo-fascist, backstabbing, politcally questionable, Euro-sceptic, racist quagmire. It's all too depressing.
Image Image Image
MICK KARN APPEAL Donations can be made via:
http://www.mickkarn.net/
User avatar
Astronaut
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:29 am
Location: World Citizen

Postby anortherncod on Tue May 27, 2008 5:42 pm

Yes, of course it's a joke - but if a British Eurovision winner WERE to be of Greek Cypriot origin, for example, that might make me feel we weren't such a racist, xenophobic, Eurosceptic nation.

(And maybe if we entered established artists the songs might be better!)

Natasha
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
anortherncod
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:05 am
Location: London, UK

Postby Astronaut on Thu May 29, 2008 7:38 am

anortherncod wrote:Yes, of course it's a joke - but if a British Eurovision winner WERE to be of Greek Cypriot origin, for example, that might make me feel we weren't such a racist, xenophobic, Eurosceptic nation.

(And maybe if we entered established artists the songs might be better!)

Natasha


And maybe it would kill off what's left of their career! :shock: :lol: I appreciate you POV - but please choose someone else - Peter Andre fits the description nicely ... :wink:
Image Image Image
MICK KARN APPEAL Donations can be made via:
http://www.mickkarn.net/
User avatar
Astronaut
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:29 am
Location: World Citizen

Postby anortherncod on Thu May 29, 2008 8:31 am

But that would be insania!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Natasha
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
anortherncod
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:05 am
Location: London, UK

Postby Astronaut on Sat May 31, 2008 12:58 pm

Precisely!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image Image Image
MICK KARN APPEAL Donations can be made via:
http://www.mickkarn.net/
User avatar
Astronaut
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:29 am
Location: World Citizen

Postby anortherncod on Sat May 31, 2008 6:28 pm

As I've previously intimated I could talk about these issues forever... but did anyone notice how Signature - two Asian dancers - DIDN'T win Britain's Got Talent? Is this another instance of racism in British voting...?

Natasha
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
anortherncod
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:05 am
Location: London, UK

Postby Astronaut on Sat May 31, 2008 7:27 pm

Quite possibly. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Just a thought here, but apart from Trevor MacDonald and Moira Stewart I can't think of any black newsreaders/current affairs reporters on TV and at the mo I cant recall the names of any Asian ones either, although I believe there are one or two ... :?
Image Image Image
MICK KARN APPEAL Donations can be made via:
http://www.mickkarn.net/
User avatar
Astronaut
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:29 am
Location: World Citizen

Postby caroline on Sat May 31, 2008 7:33 pm

God, don't get me started on inequality :evil: I went to an interview a few years ago and the interviewer, who owned the company, said to me, "Now you're not going to go and do something stupid like get pregnant soon are you?" I was gobsmacked. He was perfectly serious and thought that was an ok question, what an idiot.
User avatar
caroline
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:47 pm
Location: Scotland

Postby Astronaut on Sat May 31, 2008 8:17 pm

caroline wrote:God, don't get me started on inequality :evil: I went to an interview a few years ago and the interviewer, who owned the company, said to me, "Now you're not going to go and do something stupid like get pregnant soon are you?" I was gobsmacked. He was perfectly serious and thought that was an ok question, what an idiot.


Caroline, I remember being asked something similar a few years ago at an interview. I thought at the time it was incredibly personal and a bit rude actually. But recently I've encountered some managers who openly admit that they do not want women "of a certain age" working for them because they might go on maternity leave which now lasts for a year. They don't want the expense or the inconvenience. Welcome to the latter half of the 19th century!!! It's shameful ...
Image Image Image
MICK KARN APPEAL Donations can be made via:
http://www.mickkarn.net/
User avatar
Astronaut
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:29 am
Location: World Citizen

PreviousNext

Return to Open Season

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron