Adolescent Sex album- re-appraisal

Official releases, promos, bootlegs and memorabilia.

Postby anortherncod on Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:29 pm

liberty boy wrote:You know i thought they were singing "well you must notice something cos we're dying our hair for action" lol. Japan are particularly one of those groups where you think you hear one thing and the actual lyric was something different. Some songs like parts of don't rain on my parade and parts of the song adolescent sex were undicipherable to me till i saw them written.


OK. Well, I now admit to anyone who belongs to this forum that until VERY recently I thought the refrain in Adolescent Sex was "You're not, you're not, you're not taking my child" instead of "Get up, get up, get up, take it much higher".

:oops:

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Postby liberty boy on Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:30 pm

yes I thought that too with adolescent sex. In fact I thought they were singing "get offmy child", I thought goodness that is risque though I did more rationally assume it couldn't possibly actually be something as close to the knuckle as that, even in the context of the song title and as "dangerous" as they were trying to portray themsalves at that time. I would say about the adolescent sex album that some lyrics actually sound quite good. "take your turn on the love carousel, your time will come and i wish you well."
I actually said something like that to a girl who was always boring people with her man trouble and she throught it was really nice. :-)
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Postby Meyrav on Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:54 pm

I really am enchanted when I don't understand David's lyrics-it means that they'll have the meaning YOU'll choose.
This authentic interview (May 1978) can provide many answers about the AS album and lyrics. I like it when David says that his lyrics are more like "Impressions". Also when the interviewer says that "one line sort of means something different to the next line", David's answer is that there's no point in saying one thing the whole song, and that's why he's trying to put down his feeling in one line rather than the whole song.
Oh, and of course David declares again that- "he doesn't enjoy sex"...
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Postby Astronaut on Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:47 pm

Well, that was an interesting read Meyrav! Dave using the unmentionable 'C' word :shock: Dear-oh-Dear! Young men! What are they like? :lol: Thanks very much for posting!
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Postby liberty boy on Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:21 pm

You're all aware of the Nightporter site I take it. To anyone who doesn't that should be a must visit for oyur information of all Japan related info. In a group interview from 1978 Mick Karn called Ian Smith- the last white prime minister of Zimbabwe/Rhodesia - a c*** and they're asked for their feelings on the National Front in Britain, whom they condemn. I don't know how people feel personally but I feel myself artists should try not to be drawn into the gritty world of politics. They can say these things better through the purity of their art and the sublime message of their work.
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Postby anortherncod on Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:45 am

liberty boy wrote:You're all aware of the Nightporter site I take it. To anyone who doesn't that should be a must visit for oyur information of all Japan related info. In a group interview from 1978 Mick Karn called Ian Smith- the last white prime minister of Zimbabwe/Rhodesia - a c*** and they're asked for their feelings on the National Front in Britain, whom they condemn. I don't know how people feel personally but I feel myself artists should try not to be drawn into the gritty world of politics. They can say these things better through the purity of their art and the sublime message of their work.


We're going to have to agree to disagree on this point, I think... I've read that interview, and I know what you mean about bands getting political, but let's face it, they weren't saying 'Vote for X'. The National Front and their successors, the BNP, should be condemned by musicians and binmen alike. Also, as we all know, Japan were not just a 'white British' group, and if the BNP had their way MK and RB would not be able to have any career, in musicianship or refuse collecting - and, for that matter, neither would I.

Rant over...

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Postby liberty boy on Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:06 am

And they were speaking at the time of Rock against racism of course. Like you say I can't imagine Japan having ouvert party political views. Though New romanticism was possibly and could be argued -a very white and some would say an elitist movement implying to some extent a sort of racism of looks. Meanwhile I know people like Peter York have set it in the socio-political context of Thatcherism and the eighties- a charge that could be leveled definitely at groups like Duran Duran and their celebration of the high life.

Apart from not liking racism I wonder what David Sylvian's politics were. I think he's intimated that he doesn't like Bush. I do believe he said in an interview in America that at the moment there was something frightening going on in America. Politically inferences however in lyrics after the first two Japan albums are rare and oblique. Zero landmines is vaguely political I suppose but commendable. Was the boy and the gun a denunciation of terrorism? And so much cash in the hands of the Government I suppose was some sort of vague statement against the government profiting from mass consumerism.

David Sylvian did make a very good point about political movements in the twentieth century- saying that people will believe what you create a will in them to believe- sometimes frighteningly so. Which is a good analysis of nazi Germany, though paradoxically it could be appllied I suppose to political correctness.
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Postby anortherncod on Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:37 am

I'm sure someone will be able to confirm this if I'm right - but didn't Virgin ask DS to release The Boy With The Gun as a single at the time of the Hungerford massacre, and he refused?

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Postby liberty boy on Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:36 pm

The song was mentioned to him in a rock press interview at the time. He just agreed it was "an unfortunate coincidence". I don't remember talk of it as a single but you might be right. I think the hungerford business was a particular shock at the time because it was the first occurence of these so-called gunmen running amok events. Now a days they seem to occur regularly.
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Postby Melaszka on Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:31 pm

liberty boy wrote:And they were speaking at the time of Rock against racism of course. Like you say I can't imagine Japan having ouvert party political views. Though New romanticism was possibly and could be argued -a very white and some would say an elitist movement implying to some extent a sort of racism of looks. Meanwhile I know people like Peter York have set it in the socio-political context of Thatcherism and the eighties- a charge that could be leveled definitely at groups like Duran Duran and their celebration of the high life.

Apart from not liking racism I wonder what David Sylvian's politics were. I think he's intimated that he doesn't like Bush. I do believe he said in an interview in America that at the moment there was something frightening going on in America. Politically inferences however in lyrics after the first two Japan albums are rare and oblique. Zero landmines is vaguely political I suppose but commendable. Was the boy and the gun a denunciation of terrorism? And so much cash in the hands of the Government I suppose was some sort of vague statement against the government profiting from mass consumerism.

David Sylvian did make a very good point about political movements in the twentieth century- saying that people will believe what you create a will in them to believe- sometimes frighteningly so. Which is a good analysis of nazi Germany, though paradoxically it could be appllied I suppose to political correctness.


I think socio-political comment has been there in the songs from "Wish You Were Black" onwards, it's just he doesn't usually hit you over the head with it. I've always seen "The Ink In The Well" as a denunciation of Thatcherism and the whole of SBS bristles with anti-Bushism/anti-Western-capitalism (but maybe it is just the way I'm interpreting. As you say, the lyrics are often deliberately oblique and ambiguous).

But it's funny - I never saw "The Boy With The Gun" as being anti-terrorism or anti-anything - I always thought he empathised frighteningly well with the gunman and that it was more an exercise in trying to understand why someone would get to he point where they would commit a massacre rather than trying to condemn it.

And the interviews I've read have always suggested that DS is very Left politically - although typically I can't think of a single concrete example to back tis up now I want to!

I'm sure someone will be able to confirm this if I'm right - but didn't Virgin ask DS to release The Boy With The Gun as a single at the time of the Hungerford massacre, and he refused?


I've never heard this but it wouldn't surprise me, particularly given his ambivalent feelinsg about "World Citizen". The Pet Shop Boys similarly refused when asked to release "King's Cross" as a benefit single after the King's Cross fire. I think many artists, regardless of their social and political leanings or how they feel about a particular cause, want their music to be valued for the music's sake, not because it's associated with a particular event or cause or charity.
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Postby liberty boy on Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:17 pm

Yes I think it's good for artists whatever their leanings to try and set their stall above divisive specific political commentary in their work.I think politics is really for politicians. I don't think the rites of worship of any artist would anyway extend in my case to taking instruction on what political ideology to support. I think tempting as it would be to touch on politics for someone like DS with his almost christ like hold over some of his fans, it's a question of respecting the conscience of your audience. Hence I think religion and spirituality are more worthy themes as they touch something more universal in people, and I think a David sylvian fan would in essence rate the more ineffable emotions of melancholy and boundless grace as more meaningful than any worldly emotion generated by any grubby political ideology.
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Postby Melaszka on Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:23 am

liberty boy wrote:Yes I think it's good for artists whatever their leanings to try and set their stall above divisive specific political commentary in their work.I think politics is really for politicians. I don't think the rites of worship of any artist would anyway extend in my case to taking instruction on what political ideology to support. I think tempting as it would be to touch on politics for someone like DS with his almost christ like hold over some of his fans, it's a question of respecting the conscience of your audience. Hence I think religion and spirituality are more worthy themes as they touch something more universal in people, and I think a David sylvian fan would in essence rate the more ineffable emotions of melancholy and boundless grace as more meaningful than any worldly emotion generated by any grubby political ideology.


Well, yes and no, IMO. I agree that artists should probably keep apart from partisan party politics where possible - there's nothing as depressing as agitprop - but I think steering clear of any comment on social or political issues at all is not necessary.

For a start, the line between what is a political issue and what is a human rights issue is at times a shifting one (e.g. these days, most people take a fairly dim view of artists in the 1930s who wouldn't speak out against Hitler because they didn't like to get involved with politics).

Personally, I appreciate intelligent lyrics which discuss a matter of some depth, even if I disagree with the line the songwriter is taking, and I'd rather listen to artists who write political lyrics I disagree with (yes, Morrissey, I AM talking about you!) than artists who churn out bog standard, bland "I'm so in love with you, baby" lyrics.

As for the "Christlike hold" David has, I don't think it extends to influencing fans' core beliefs. I've met a lot of DS fans who are obsessive to the point where I doubt their mental health (and others have said the same about me), but I've NEVER met a fan who has changed their religion or politics or dietary habits just to be like David. We treat him as a God musically (and in some cases as a fashion icon), but that doesn't mean we agree with everything he says or slavishly follow him like sheep.

As I've said on other threads, I love the way that in a lot of his work DS doesn't make the meaning too obvious and leaves some room for the listener to make up his/her own mind on what the words mean to him/her personally. But I also like some of his more explicitly political lyrics a lot, too.

And I don't think spiritual lyrics are necessarily more "neutral" and less "divisive" than political ones. In fact, the only lyrics of Sylvian's which I personally find a bit dull are the ones that seem to me to be quite dogmatically pushing a Hindu or Buddhist agenda (not, I hasten to add, because I've got anything against Hindus or Buddhists, but because I prefer lyrics wihich are a bit more open-ended). But I do think it's very much a matter of personal taste.

Anyway, I'm meandering horribly off topic so I'll go away now.
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Postby liberty boy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:49 pm

[b]And I don't think spiritual lyrics are necessarily more "neutral" and less "divisive" than political ones. In fact, the only lyrics of Sylvian's which I personally find a bit dull are the ones that seem to me to be quite dogmatically pushing a Hindu or Buddhist agenda (not, I hasten to add, because I've got anything against Hindus or Buddhists, but because I prefer lyrics wihich are a bit more open-ended). But I do think it's very much a matter of personal taste.[b]

Yes i get where you're coming from. I think possibly the song from Camphor sung in Hindi was possibly a bit heavy handed. But still forgivable. And he never descends to the preachyness of say George Harrison a la my sweet lord. Unlike the latter's self conscious pushing of his religion I can understand how hinduism takes it's natural place in the overall scheme of DS's dream.
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Postby liberty boy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:06 pm

I guess i know what you mean about Morrissey, his lyrics are engaging although at the same time i have to say I think he's an overated lyricist. I mean I'm told there's all sorts going on such as self caricaturing and so on but I've never managed to appreciate it in general. And in some of his songs the lyrics seem detached from the tunes. I think that's to do with someone else writing the music that at times lends the impression that lyrics and tune were the result of separate processes.
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Postby Astronaut on Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:25 pm

Japan were not just a 'white British' group, and if the BNP had their way MK and RB would not be able to have any career, in musicianship or refuse collecting - and, for that matter, neither would I.
... and neither would I Natasha! In fact if that lot had their way I'd probably never have been allowed into the UK in the first place! Nor, indeed, would most of my friends.
I've met a lot of DS fans who are obsessive to the point where I doubt their mental health (and others have said the same about me), but I've NEVER met a fan who has changed their religion or politics or dietary habits just to be like David. We treat him as a God musically (and in some cases as a fashion icon), but that doesn't mean we agree with everything he says or slavishly follow him like sheep.
I agree with you wholeheartedly Melaszka, although I know some fans who have changed their dietary habits because of David, just as I knew quite a few people who became vegetarians because of "Meat-is-murder" Morrissey back in the mid-80's. :roll:
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