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Boys v girls

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:47 am
by kinki
OK, here's something which has niggled me at the back of my mind for years.

Yes, we girlies all love the boys for their music, but there's a lot of drooling going on as well. :D

What gets me is, what is the specific appeal of Japan for the blokes? I get the feeling there is a large male fanbase out there and Im fascinated to know how you see Japan WITHOUT the added drool factor.... ;-)

If any of that makes sense..... :shock:

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:58 am
by krausy
I believe your feelings are accurate---I understand there are alot of guy fans out there and their numbers are actually higher than the girls. I too would like to know how the guys feel about this and what their reasons are.

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:09 am
by John Trevethan
For me it was the musicianship in Japan (particularly Mick Karn's unique approach) and how forward-thinking they were. I think Japan really had a lot more influence on other artists in the 80's than most people realize. They also had tons of style. Yes, they were making the girls drool - but the boys wanted to emulate their style in an attempt to make girls drool too!

As far as David Sylvian's solo work: what drew me in was the depth and sophistication of his music. He was way more sophisticated than I even realized back then. It wasn't until only a few years ago that I started to get his references to filmmakers like Bergman, Godard and Cocteau. There is something utterly timeless about his music, which I feel will allow him to be remembered far into the future. I also appreciate how he never resorted to the cliched "baby, baby I love you" sort of lyrics. He usually tackled heavier subjects and even his lyrics about love are complex and invite the listener to unravel their intended meaning.

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:31 pm
by kinki
Thanks John, I had an inkling it was a lot do do with the actual music, but it's good to get a male perspective on their unique visual style too. To my mind, in the same way Bauhaus werent 'goth', Japan weren't 'new romantic', just individual. And from that point of view I can see how blokes would take them more seriously than, say, Spandau Ballet or Duran Duran who seemed more 'manufactured' purely for girls...

Obviously at the time you blokes saw how influential they were without being clouded by lust. :wink:

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:11 pm
by proggrl
kinki wrote: Duran Duran who seemed more 'manufactured' purely for girls...


Ohhhh... that's getting dangerously close to the line. ;) I'll have to simply disagree with that statement. OK, they had a lot of hits, were good looking and made fancy videos. Because they were marketable does not mean they weren't serious about their music. If that were the case, they wouldn't have stuck around this long! You're getting a pass because the term "seemed" entered that statement.

Anyway there's so much more to Japan and Sylvain than their looks and style. David's music today is hardly marketable to the teeny-bop youth of today. That certainly excludes the intelligent younger crowd on this forum who so obviously know better! :wink: Even the later Japan albums were (in my mind) too sophisticated for most folks. I think they were and still are a bit ahead of their time creating music for the sake of creating music that they feel and love, that's unconventional and uncompromising. That's what I love about them (and Sylvian). The fact that I can sometimes find him attractive is an added bonus. If he looked like my dogs ass, I'd still love his music just as much. And I don't even HAVE a dog!

Just take a look at the five mugs that make up Echolyn -my favouritest band EVER - and you'll know what I mean. :-D (although I did have a 3 month crush on Tommy, the bassist, but that's besides the point - I was just overjoyed to have him back in the fold, that's all. )

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:51 pm
by Poisoned_Apathy
proggrl wrote:
kinki wrote: Duran Duran who seemed more 'manufactured' purely for girls...


Ohhhh... that's getting dangerously close to the line. ;) I'll have to simply disagree with that statement. OK, they had a lot of hits, were good looking and made fancy videos. Because they were marketable does not mean they weren't serious about their music. If that were the case, they wouldn't have stuck around this long! You're getting a pass because the term "seemed" entered that statement.


I totally agree with you. They are a great pop band, and I can't find anything bad about it. I don't understand why "marketable" have to means "poor quality", it's just make me sick. :evil:

proggrl wrote: David's music today is hardly marketable to the teeny-bop youth of today. That certainly excludes the intelligent younger crowd on this forum who so obviously know better! :wink:


Thanks!

proggrl wrote:The fact that I can sometimes find him attractive is an added bonus. If he looked like my dogs ass, I'd still love his music just as much. And I don't even HAVE a dog!


:lol: I'm with you. I listened first to the music and then looked to the pictures. I like stylish bands , beacuse I like that whole concept that unify music and images [pictures, videos, graphics etc...], some kind of "Gesamtkunstwerk" but in a little scale.I think it's cool and really funny.

In addition , I can find someone attractive [I can't remember anybody at this moment] and dislike his music or acting or whatever , and I'm a big fan of Dead Cab for Cutie [for example] and they all look terrible!!! :smt042 :smt042 :smt042

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:34 pm
by kinki
OK, firstly I apologise for my perhaps slightly derogatory criticism of Duran Duran... I was going off the feeling I had back then when to me they did seem to be more superficial than Japan, hence the deliberate use of the word 'seemed'.. :wink:

In truth, however, I loved Duran Duran almost as much and yes, their music stood the test of time with the best of them.....

If they're on the radio, I often say to friends things like 'Ah, they dont write songs like that any more - those were proper pop songs....'

So I consider my knuckles well and truly rapped...

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:22 pm
by Poisoned_Apathy
Don't worry.

I can understand your point of view in some way. I'm a great Duran Duran fan and I also consider them more "superficial" [though I hate that word] than Japan. But that is one of the things I like more from their music. That moments of joy and fun when you can forget about anything and loose yourself in the music. Though I think Japan also have that type of danceable pop songs like 'Life in Tokyo' , for example.
While I prefer Japan/Sylvian music for more introspective moments. Every kind of music has its time! :D

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:50 pm
by lastgoldstar
Poisoned_Apathy wrote:Don't worry.

I can understand your point of view in some way. I'm a great Duran Duran fan and I also consider them more "superficial" [though I hate that word] than Japan. But that is one of the things I like more from their music. That moments of joy and fun when you can forget about anything and loose yourself in the music. Though I think Japan also have that type of danceable pop songs like 'Life in Tokyo' , for example.
While I prefer Japan/Sylvian music for more introspective moments. Every kind of music has its time! :D


I completely agree with what you said. Japan and Duran are my two favourite bands and, to me, Duran is obviously more "poppier" than Japan. But even Duran doesn't seem to be in fashion now, because I get just as many cringes from people when I play either Duran or Japan. :cry:

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:15 pm
by sonic_chronicler
English (Straight) Male here who was heavily into the 'New Romantic Scene.

The sound was obviously very important, but back then the dressing up was a massive part of it, pixie boots, flowing shirts, make up and I was only 12-13 :lol:

Japan just stuck out as having far more style than the other bands. Rob Dean had departed by the time I got onboard and all the other bands had at least one member who looked like they didn't belong, weren't entirely comfortable with it all - "Brickies in Lippy" is the phrase used to describe them :lol:

Japan however, just looked stunning - there was David, the world's most beautiful man - how could I say I didn't have some sort of schoolboy crush on him? Mick looked so exotic. Richard & Steve looked fantasic too (mind you, some of steve's trousers weren't the best outfit for a drummer)

The Duran thing? Well I was a huge fan, but I was always convinced Nick Rhodes wanted to be Sylvian (Hey he looked Gorgeous too!) and Fatty Le Bon? (apologies girls) but he was never going to be the worlds greatest singer was he?

So (despite the rambling) Music was the main factor - but the look was SO important

Sonic

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:15 am
by krausy
What I know is: Japan influenced Duran Duran as Japan was well on their way in 1978 and DD was just getting started and trying to find their sound, and eventually took a little of everything they heard and developed from that. So yeah, DD is similar but different and will never be what Japan was. DD are a product of their influence and experiences and added what they could to it to somehow make it their own sound. I am glad they are still around making good music. And of course I am glad the guys of Japan are doing the work that brings them satisfaction, whether it was/is together or apart.

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:31 pm
by kinki
sonic_chronicler wrote:"Brickies in Lippy"


AhahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAhahahahaha ahaha!!! excellent!


sonic_chronicler wrote:Fatty Le Bon? (apologies girls)


*falls off chair laughing*

Oh come on. he was cute, in a cuddly sort of way....

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:31 pm
by Poisoned_Apathy
lastgoldstar wrote: But even Duran doesn't seem to be in fashion now, because I get just as many cringes from people when I play either Duran or Japan. :cry:


Yeah, I know what you're talking about. When I say I'm a Duran fan people look at me like... :wink: and I don't ask about Japan because i know perfectly that they don't know who they are :( Except for my sweet boyfriend [I was shocked when I first talked to him about them and he just said "I love Adolescent Sex!!" :smt055 and he likes Duran also :P and my two best friends that stand all my obssessions :lol: ...But I do the same with them as well :lol People say we're a trio of freaks!! :smt044 But we are just in love with music and we are looking for something better than Britney Spears ;-)

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:37 pm
by godisinthesilences
wow very weird.... when i play japan and duran i always get people asking who it is and saying they love both.
I genuinely love duran... they saved my life quite literally... as a teenager. I owe that band a great deal.
However, I love Japan for different reasons. They expanded my way of thinking about music in general.

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:56 pm
by Rob
I think Sonic has summed it up how most males got into Japan. I also was also heavily influenced by the New Romantic/Futurist movement and got into the band that way. In my teens I tried to look like Sylvian and co to very little success. Emulating your heroes dress sense in the early 80's was often a dangerous past time which often led to being chased by the local nazi skinheads or townie yobs. When the decade moved on so did I but carried on listening to Sylvian and co whilst forgetting about the rest of the bands. It's only recently that I have started to explore my formative years again in this age of ebay where stuff can be picked up quite cheaply.

Someone mentioned that Bauhaus were often tagged goth without being a real goth band in the same way that Japan were tagged New Romantic but were much more. Interesting that these two bands would collide in Dalis Car. A collaboration that could have been so much more!

Rob


sonic_chronicler wrote:English (Straight) Male here who was heavily into the 'New Romantic Scene.

The sound was obviously very important, but back then the dressing up was a massive part of it, pixie boots, flowing shirts, make up and I was only 12-13 :lol:


Sonic