Sylvian - past, present, future

From Brilliant Trees through Died In The Wool...

Sylvian - past, present, future

Postby Simonp on Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:35 pm

I hardly listen to any of Sylvian's older work these days. In fact anything pre Blemish hardly gets a listen now. I just feel that since Blemish and inception of Samadhisound he seems to be producing the best work of his career to date. Nine Horses and his contributions to Steve's new album, the two tracks on the recent Samadhi sampler, "Transit". When Dead Bees came out i thought his career was pretty much over but thank God he's proved us wrong.

What are your thoughts on this people? What is your favourite period in Sylvian's career? Do you like what he is doing now or do you wish he'd release Brilliant Trees 2???

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Postby Burnsjed on Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:49 pm

For me my favourite time was probably around Alchemy and GTE, but that said like you I only really listen to post Blemish, not sure why, maybe as they are 'fresher'?
Though Blemish is now 4 years old, given it took a lot longer to grow on me, I haven't played it to death, so it still has an awful lot to offer.
I still would like him to develop the Wasn't I Joe?/Blue Skinned Gods sound, as I think their is a lot more mileage in that yet.
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Postby Melaszka on Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:01 pm

It's funny you should say that, because it occurred to me the other day that, although I've always thought of SOTB as my favourite DS album, it's just a label I've stuck to it, and it does little for me any more - I tend to listen to the post-Blemish stuff most of the time these days. I'm not sure , though, like Burnsjed, how much of that is that the pre-Blemish stuff was worse quality or whether it's just I've played it to death.

I went off Nine Horses for a few months, but seeing Sylvian live has reinspired me in that direction.

Having said that, in a pefect parallel universe, I'd like DS to rerecord Brilliant Trees now - the songwriting on it is excellent, but his vocal ability falls so far short of what it is now.

I'm very keen to hear what he does next - as always with David, the could-be-anything-whatsoever-he's so unpredictable-it's anyone's-guess factor makes it so exciting.
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Postby Burnsjed on Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:34 am

I tend to think that you play them to death, and then something new coms along and is like a breath of fresh air, then comes the tour, you hear some of the old songs again and almost rediscover them.
I have been listening to live recordings of the Shamans Tour, and although his vocals are clearly better now, though it could be that the vocal range is less challenging, the music from that tour is just outstanding.
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Postby mikaels on Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:01 am

Good question, and hard ;)
I must admit most often I listen to Japan, I still love the new romantic period, GTP is still my favoiurite, but that does NOT mean I wish he'd make another one like that.
I have various favourites from his solo work, depending on my mood, season etc. SotB still get played a lot, as does GTE. I still havn't really gotten into Blemish (or the remix one), but I will.
I am not that amazed with Nine Horses, sometimes it sounds just like any light ambient/electronica/elevator music to me, and sometimes it is quite good.
The Fripp stuff is still good, but I don't get to listen to it often enough, my SO is no fan of that period (or os DS at all, for that matter...)
Just to make it easy, I most often put on one of the CDs from Everything and Nothing ;)

So, I'd like him to keep experimenting, new stuff is always good, even if it's bad...
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Postby baht habit on Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:22 pm

I would tend to recognize that this latest phase of Sylvian's career is interesting enough for it's originality and it's deep ability to challenge listeners with it's experimentalism.
Yet all I have to do is listen to The First Day (which I do at least once a month as ritual...With every listen, I get swept up in the aggression and drive as if it were my first exposure to the release), Gone To Earth (never have I heard more beauty come from such an experimentally gothic sound) or Secrets Of The Beehive (which admittedly I am sort of a latecomer in total appreciation for, so it resonates even stronger for me since I hardly could claim that I have played it to death).
In regards to the Samadhi Sound releases, 'blemish' is interesting for what it is but still I find it hard to be impressed enough with it's very bleakness, it's similarity in tone throughout, and the subject matter fails to completely engage me since I am not interested at all in the man's personal life and the problems he was forced to deal with. I do enjoy the Nine Horses material very much, but it could be important to point out that a large majority of the music from the group was written by Friedman or Jansen (as well as the music to my favorite piece "The Day The Earth Stole Heaven" written by my fellow Philadelphian Tim Motzer). NH output definitely makes for an awesome listening experience (especially in this dire period of what drek passes as music in general), but I don't detect the pure passion and depth on Sylvian's part in comparison to work he had released under his own name.
Also, I must make mention of how I am not all that fond of this relatively newfound penchant for Sylvian to mix his vocals so high atop or so far in front (depending on how the listener hears and perceives the placement of musical instruments and vocalists on a recording...top to bottom / front to back) of the other musicians. I first noticed this tendency with Dead Bees On A Cake and then it was taken to a whole other level in the case of 'blemish', and now is continued to a slighter degree with the Nine Horses releases. I much prefer the blending of vocals and instruments in order to give equal weight to all contributions to the composition.
I especially admire the sound that was produced between Sylvian and Bottrill working on The First Day...in my opinion it is the strongest sonic work of Sylvian's career and in turn he forced himself to stretch his voice since the world class musicians working with him were hardly giving an inch in deference. And going back to his work in the eighties and a few years later with Rain Tree Crow, his voice may not yet have been quite as strong, but he definitely utilized more in terms of actual melody...less emphasis was placed on perfection---more focus on pure emotion.
Nowadays, Sylvian hardly moves away from that very small vocal range he prefers. He seems almost afraid to stray as if he fears that he may very well falter while daring to venture anywhere outside of that comfort zone. On works such as 'blemish', "Transit" and now the more recent "Sleepwalkers", Sylvian may be challenging his listeners with the experimental edge of the music, but he is definitely not challenging himself with the limited melody lines of his vocals.
So though I am very interested in the challenges presented by his output of the present and obviously what we will be subjected to in the future, I would find it extremely difficult to foresake the amazing work he had issued in the past...it's just too strong to ignore.

"Do you like what he is doing now or do you wish he'd release Brilliant Trees 2???"

I find the second part of your question to be somewhat insulting. I do happen to enjoy what Sylvian is doing now, but the particular phrasing in your question implies that anyone who doesn't happen to like what Sylvian is producing nowadays is someone who is living in the past and would rather prefer that an artist repeat himself or herself. The ironic thing is that I find certain aspects of the Nine Horses releases to be very similar in tone to certain styles found on Brilliant Trees or Secrets of the Beehives.
Last edited by baht habit on Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Silver Moon on Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:07 pm

It goes in cycles for me... Sometimes Japan, Early solo, later solo, new stuff... There will just come a day where I'll suddenly feel like listening to Dead Bees On A Cake... And then Everything and nothing and I'll listen to that time period for a little while!

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Postby godisinthesilences on Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:04 pm

I think I go in time periods as well and perhaps even seasonally. In the colder times I listen more to certain efforts than in warmer months. Like nine horses feels different to me in the winter than say in the middle of summer.
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Postby Simonp on Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:03 am

baht habit wrote:"Do you like what he is doing now or do you wish he'd release Brilliant Trees 2???"

I find the second part of your question to be somewhat insulting. I do happen to enjoy what Sylvian is doing now, but the particular phrasing in your question implies that anyone who doesn't happen to like what Sylvian is producing nowadays is someone who is living in the past and would rather prefer that an artist repeat himself or herself.


I didnt intend for my question to be insulting nor will I apologise for asking it. It was a staightforward question querying which period of work of Sylvian's people preferred.
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Postby Silver Moon on Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:05 am

godisinthesilences wrote:I think I go in time periods as well and perhaps even seasonally. In the colder times I listen more to certain efforts than in warmer months. Like nine horses feels different to me in the winter than say in the middle of summer.


I agree! What's strange with me is that 'Snow Borne Sorrow' totally reminds me of sunny summer days. ... I guess because I bought it and listenend to it all the time during the summer... So whenever I hear it now I think of summer.

And with Brilliant Trees... That one reminds me of cold, wet winter days for the same reason. ... I guess it's when/where I listen to an album that it reminds me of that. Hence why I never listened to music I love on the way to school.

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Postby Lady Arcadia on Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:54 am

Interesting question!

I must admit that I listen to Sylvian from all parts of his career. It sort of depends what mood I am feeling, Brilliant Trees is different from Gone to Earth and light years away from his more recent stuff.

His music, like other artists I listen too, also provide a sort of landmark to different times in my life, - some positive, some not so.
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Postby Simonp on Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:58 am

baht habit wrote:Also, I must make mention of how I am not all that fond of this relatively newfound penchant for Sylvian to mix his vocals so high atop or so far in front (depending on how the listener hears and perceives the placement of musical instruments and vocalists on a recording...top to bottom / front to back) of the other musicians. I first noticed this tendency with Dead Bees On A Cake and then it was taken to a whole other level in the case of 'blemish', and now is continued to a slighter degree with the Nine Horses releases. I much prefer the blending of vocals and instruments in order to give equal weight to all contributions to the composition.
I especially admire the sound that was produced between Sylvian and Bottrill working on The First Day...in my opinion it is the strongest sonic work of Sylvian's career and in turn he forced himself to stretch his voice since the world class musicians working with him were hardly giving an inch in deference. And going back to his work in the eighties and a few years later with Rain Tree Crow, his voice may not yet have been quite as strong, but he definitely utilized more in terms of actual melody...less emphasis was placed on perfection---more focus on pure emotion.
Nowadays, Sylvian hardly moves away from that very small vocal range he prefers. He seems almost afraid to stray as if he fears that he may very well falter while daring to venture anywhere outside of that comfort zone. On works such as 'blemish', "Transit" and now the more recent "Sleepwalkers", Sylvian may be challenging his listeners with the experimental edge of the music, but he is definitely not challenging himself with the limited melody lines of his vocals.


This, however, I can't agree more with you!
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Postby Burnsjed on Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:57 am

I didn't want to be critical, but he has found his vocal range and rarely strays from it, which was the nice thing about when he performed 'It'll Never Happen Again' live.
There are a few lines there where he is singing in a slightly different range.
Maybe as he is getting older he feels the higher part of his range is now lacking?
But this probably is why some of the critics found faults with his live performance, as any changes have to come through the music.
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Postby baht habit on Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:17 pm

:) Simon Says:
I didnt intend for my question to be insulting nor will I apologise for asking it. It was a staightforward question querying which period of work of Sylvian's people preferred.

:twisted: Evil Baht replies:
I would not think that any apologies were necessary, since we are only posting an on-line discussion, and simple words should never have to lead to apologies.

That being said ...As you pointed out, there was a straightforward question....yet after asking the straightforward question, you also tossed in an Either/Or question:

"Do you like what he is doing now or do you wish he'd release Brilliant Trees 2???"

After stating how you prefer Sylvian's output since the formation of Samadhi Sound, how you are moving more and more away from listening to his older work, and how you obviously felt that Dead Bees On A Cake was possibly a career killer, you felt compelled to ask a question in such a delineating way which implies that if someone doesn't happen to agree with your initial remarks regarding Sylvian's work, then they are most likely living in the past and prefer Sylvian to basically rehash and repeat his previous work.
Isn't that exactly why you gave a description such as 'what he is doing now' vs. "Brilliant Trees 2"?
So please do not insult anybody's intelligence anymore by acting as if you innocently posed a question inquiring about the preferences of others without already prejudging any possible differing opinions that others may hold.
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Postby Simonp on Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:55 pm

baht habit wrote::) Simon Says:
I didnt intend for my question to be insulting nor will I apologise for asking it. It was a staightforward question querying which period of work of Sylvian's people preferred.

:twisted: Evil Baht replies:
I would not think that any apologies were necessary, since we are only posting an on-line discussion, and simple words should never have to lead to apologies.

That being said ...As you pointed out, there was a straightforward question....yet after asking the straightforward question, you also tossed in an Either/Or question:

"Do you like what he is doing now or do you wish he'd release Brilliant Trees 2???"

After stating how you prefer Sylvian's output since the formation of Samadhi Sound, how you are moving more and more away from listening to his older work, and how you obviously felt that Dead Bees On A Cake was possibly a career killer, you felt compelled to ask a question in such a delineating way which implies that if someone doesn't happen to agree with your initial remarks regarding Sylvian's work, then they are most likely living in the past and prefer Sylvian to basically rehash and repeat his previous work.
Isn't that exactly why you gave a description such as 'what he is doing now' vs. "Brilliant Trees 2"?
So please do not insult anybody's intelligence anymore by acting as if you innocently posed a question inquiring about the preferences of others without already prejudging any possible differing opinions that others may hold.


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