Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

From Brilliant Trees through Died In The Wool...

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby Tin Bird on Sun May 21, 2017 10:57 am

no respect for the listener...I agree for the most part. I would just add, again, that we are free to choose...DS did not MAKE us listen or buy PTS. We are free, just as David is free, to pursue anything that we choose to accept into our lives. I suppose our wishing for a "return to form" is what drives the mild annoyance and borderline anger that he won't engage. DS is one of the greatest songwriters of all time in my humble opinion. We still have the old albums to listen to any time we want. I think that is going to have to suffice.
When I cannot sing my heart...I can only speak my mind...
User avatar
Tin Bird
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:47 am

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby javier on Tue May 23, 2017 11:05 am

I couldn't have said it better myself, Tin Bird.

To many it seems like such an awful waste of potential, this apparently meaningless, craftless, expressionless road that DS is now on.
But rather than letting disappointment remain any longer (as it did for many years), I'm now treating it as a life lesson in being detached from expectations. Tough lesson!
javier
Obsessed
Obsessed
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:01 am

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby svendutchmountains on Tue May 23, 2017 3:23 pm

I have to say - I actually really like PTS. I do not share the criticism. I seem to be the only one - or at least the only one willing to admit it.

I find the recording very enticing, and to a certain extent calming whilst also keeping an edge (if that makes any sense). To a certain extent it reminds me of Toru Takemitsu's early work such as "Water Music - for magnetic tape"...

And it is certainly more exciting and different than Mr. Barbieri's recent effort, which I'd term "Mostly Harmless."

Just my 2 cents...
I recognize no method of living that I know of, I see only the basic materials I may use
User avatar
svendutchmountains
Obsessed
Obsessed
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:32 am

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby inkinthewell on Tue May 23, 2017 5:37 pm

svendutchmountains wrote:I actually really like PTS. I seem to be the only one.

You're not alone. :D

Just a thought about the "form": I'm not so sure that Sylvian's previous music & songs were loved for their "form", but, rather, for all that was spilling out of it.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - JL 1940-1980
User avatar
inkinthewell
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:38 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby baht habit on Tue May 23, 2017 10:27 pm

I feel that Sylvian has a great deal of respect for those who listen to his music. In regards to what constitutes music, he has consistently been an open minded individual. It seems evident to me that he places great trust in his listeners that they too will approach his art with an open mind.
baht habit
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 668
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 3:37 pm

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby Tin Bird on Wed May 24, 2017 7:06 am

The phrase "return to form" means a return to doing something in the great way in which you did it before. It doesn't mean the from or shape or sound of the music. It essentially means be great again.

This: "being detached from expectations" is perhaps the main purpose in life. Being happy with less. Surrender (sound familiar?) To me this is not at all a religious thing (I am an atheist), but a realization that if one spends all of his or her life hoping, striving, reaching, wishing....it is difficult to find inner peace. Nothing wrong with having goals and working to achieve them, but realizing that much of life's outcomes are outside of your ability to control allows you to be happy with less or different from what you thought you wanted because you will almost always end up with different than what you thought you would have. At the very least recognizing the fact that people will always let you down simply because it is part of human nature will free you from much of life's pain. Not sure if i made any sense there...but I tried. :-)

As for PTS, if you really like that album, there are hundreds of labels out there that release album after album of music that fits into the same general category...improvised minimalism...I own a few CDs from the Erstwhile label myself... so if you like that kind of stuff, it is out there for you. Personally, and I realize that we are getting a bit into Chad territory again here, I simply think that DS is capable of much more enticing, interesting, fleshed out, musical statements and I wish (ugh here we go again with the wishing...see I told you it leads to unhappiness!) he would take advantage of his songwriting skills and craft something with more purpose to it. However, I have accepted that he isn't going to do that and that is OK for me.
With all due respect, I do not think DS ever has his fans in mind...he does what he does for his own reasons..he always has. He himself my hope that some fans will stick with it, but I do not think he ever considers this when making music. I think I've heard him say that.
I would lastly say that anyone posting on a DS forum engaging in thoughtful discussion about DS music in the year 2017, I think by definition is "open-minded", no?
When I cannot sing my heart...I can only speak my mind...
User avatar
Tin Bird
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:47 am

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby inkinthewell on Wed May 24, 2017 9:56 am

Tin Bird wrote:The phrase "return to form" means a return to doing something in the great way in which you did it before. It doesn't mean the from or shape or sound of the music. It essentially means be great again.

After lukasgardiner's post ("art is nothing without form"), your "return to form" seemed to have an ironic double meaning.
I hope my response didn't come out as aggressive; it was just a reflection.

On your second point, I think a better motto would be "being happy with what you get". That should make sure no-one becomes grumpy if they get more than expected. :D

PTS: what makes it different from other similar, even identical, records, is that it is by DS.
I find it interesting because whatever he is doing now, will be influenced by this, even if he were to consider his improv experience a total failure and go back to song-form. But I don't think that will be the case: I have the feeling he isn't totally satisfied with what he got from Manafon, and that he's still looking for a way to capture what he feels, hears in his head, maybe, but can't yet put his finger on. (Only my personal opinion, of course.)

As for the fans, I really don't know. I hope his priorities are his own self and needs, and that he doesn't do anything because it is expected from him, nor because it is the exact opposite of what is expected from him.
But if I was nasty I'd say he has taken the route he has taken just to get rid of all the "oh-he's-so-lovely" fans! :-D
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - JL 1940-1980
User avatar
inkinthewell
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:38 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby Tin Bird on Wed May 24, 2017 11:32 am

I hope my response didn't come out as aggressive; it was just a reflection.

Not at all...it was a fair comment.


"being happy with what you get". That should make sure no-one becomes grumpy if they get more than expected. :D

Well said...much better than my verbose novel! :-) I could not agree more with this.

looking for a way to capture what he feels, hears in his head, maybe, but can't yet put his finger on.

maybe so...while I appreciate the noble pursuit, I just wish (ugh...) that he would be willing to perhaps expand the palate...even just a bit... more colors...more to work with...

taken the route he has taken just to get rid of all the "oh-he's-so-lovely" fans! :-D

Yes. Honestly though, didn't he accomplish that a loonnggg time ago? I can't see any ex-Smash Hits readers plopping Plight and Premonition onto the turntable! :lol:
When I cannot sing my heart...I can only speak my mind...
User avatar
Tin Bird
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:47 am

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby inkinthewell on Wed May 24, 2017 12:38 pm

:lol:
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - JL 1940-1980
User avatar
inkinthewell
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:38 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby lukasgardiner on Wed May 24, 2017 11:09 pm

great discussion - which i'm sure has happened before in other forms throughout the years ---

i do understand that artistically mr sylvian's endeavours have been very personal but if you're going to sell the results of those endeavours there should be (IMHO) a certain amount of consideration for the artist connecting with the audience - can't always be the other way around... isn't that called self-indulgence?
lukasgardiner
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby Tin Bird on Thu May 25, 2017 6:36 am

isn't that called self-indulgence?...by definition it is, nevertheless, in my opinion it is the only true way to create art. if one is solely or even partially concerned with record sales/units shifting, it taints the work and infuses elements that most likely would not have been there naturally. it is a slippery slope of course because unless you are a hermit, you are most certainly aware of modern trends and popular musical acts...that said, I don't think DS has owned a TV for many, many years, and he has lived a hermit-like existence at times over the past 20 years, so he might truly qualify as an artist working completely outside of current popular cultural memes and trends. I applaud this, I just am not enjoying his present side-road of work.

Another quick comment to play devil's advocate to myself...I used to read Smash Hits regularly....I enjoyed looking at the cool hairdos. So I guess he didn't shake me off yet! :-)
When I cannot sing my heart...I can only speak my mind...
User avatar
Tin Bird
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:47 am

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby lukasgardiner on Thu May 25, 2017 6:08 pm

i guess what i have to come to terms with is that mr sylvian has made the transition from songwriter/performer to pure artist --- something like that - i understand myself :D
lukasgardiner
Regular
Regular
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby missouriman on Thu May 25, 2017 8:16 pm

When PTS was released I asked in all innocence on his Facebook page if we had to buy it. (I meant to you know help out...). He replied "No, not at all" which I thought strange but honest.
missouriman
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 9:56 am

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby Tin Bird on Fri May 26, 2017 6:53 am

Yeah...I think he has always wanted to be viewed as an "artist" rather than a pop musician. I think.... I suppose he has accomplished that...if one wanted to find a parallel, I hate to say it, but our guy looks to be following in Mark Hollis' footsteps. AS the music slowly dissipates, the man disappears along with it. Like a fading sustained note on it's last gasp of reverb...
:idea:
When I cannot sing my heart...I can only speak my mind...
User avatar
Tin Bird
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:47 am

Re: Sylvian on new Sakamoto album async

Postby Foales Arishes on Fri May 26, 2017 1:41 pm

Tin Bird wrote:Yeah...I think he has always wanted to be viewed as an "artist" rather than a pop musician. I think.... I suppose he has accomplished that...if one wanted to find a parallel, I hate to say it, but our guy looks to be following in Mark Hollis' footsteps. AS the music slowly dissipates, the man disappears along with it. Like a fading sustained note on it's last gasp of reverb...
:idea:


Absolutely -for the first part of the quote - and I think he is actually, in the broader sense of the word [artist]... that and something of a curator (a word I tend to loath, as everyone seems to be a fucking curator these days) with his assemblages, and sadly now defunct label. His photography I find really interesting, and I would like see more of this side of him. I would have loved to see the Impossible show, and abandon/hope... which at least I have to book of. This stuff excites me as much as his music, and I'm surprised he hasn't combined the two more often.

I do hope he doesn't do a full 'Mark Hollis' as that basically means, never to be seen again... At least DS is still working on projects, that we actually get to hear/see, whether we like them or not, and I'd take something I only get a fraction of, rather than nowt.

Only a few days until the Confront release, which I hope will be interesting if nothing else... PTS is not something I play often, but I do sometimes use it to get to sleep, and I don't mean that in an insulting way... I simply find it strangely soothing, and I like the field recording side of it.
Foales Arishes
Everything & Nothing
Everything & Nothing
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:15 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Solo Work

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron