September

From Brilliant Trees through Died In The Wool...

Re: September

Postby Blemished on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:39 am

I am frantically reading up on phpBB, cPanel, web hosts etc with a view to keeping this site going if the current, generous hosts allow me to.

David (and Richard and Steve) continue to produce wonderful and varied music. I would deeply miss this forum to discuss and debate it. Facebook does nothing for me - so I will do my utmost to sustain this platform as long as there are fellow travellers out there.

Will keep you posted.
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Re: September

Postby ob8 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:15 am

depeon wrote: is it right that we should listen to something repeatedly in the hope that we can somehow connect with it


Just my opinion but yes, as in my experience I think not all music can be appreciated straight away. If something has drawn you back like Emily then maybe you will hear it in a different light.

A lot of my favourite albums are the ones that have grown on me over a period of time.
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Re: September

Postby ob8 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:16 am

Blemished wrote:I am frantically reading up on phpBB, cPanel, web hosts etc with a view to keeping this site going if the current, generous hosts allow me to.

David (and Richard and Steve) continue to produce wonderful and varied music. I would deeply miss this forum to discuss and debate it. Facebook does nothing for me - so I will do my utmost to sustain this platform as long as there are fellow travellers out there.

Will keep you posted.


Thank you and happy reading :D
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Re: September

Postby baht habit on Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:11 am

depeon wrote: is it right that we should listen to something repeatedly in the hope that we can somehow connect with it?


That is exactly what I had to do as an adolescent in the early 80s in order to evolve as a musician. As a child who felt as though he must conform to get along with his peers, I had become accustomed to drek such as Van Halen, Kiss, Led Zepplin, Rush, AC/DC, etc. I also had the good fortune to be exposed to The Beatles by my parents, so that was a much better starting point.
But what was hot and popular at the time? Men At Work, The Police, Culture Club, Michael Jackson, The Clash, Prince, Duran Duran? With the exception of the potential that Sting started to show on Synchronicity, I knew these bands were not going to expand my horizons as a musician. I had been introduced to the sound of 80s King Crimson (Beat '82) by an older girl up the road from me, and that band may have been my first tangential acclimation towards jazz.
So I focused on much more challenging artists within the genre of jazz. At first the style was entirely foreign and some of it was not all that palatable to a boy of 12 years old (for example, Thelonius Monk and Charles Mingus were ahelluvalot more challenging than listening to Pat Metheny or Weather Report). Yet through repeated listenings, the musical vocabulary made more and more sense to me, which brought about a greater appreciation for what I heard - ultimately that perseverance and intake of information also helped me to develop a greater facility and dexterity on my chosen instrument.
Once the connection was made around my mid-teens and essentially my musical horizons were broadened, I became not only a well-rounded player but a more sophisticated analyst of other styles of music. I'd then go and borrow records from the local library with absolutely no idea of the content. This exposed me to even more music I would have missed out on, such as the amazing career of Frank Zappa - who was far too subversive and occasionally much too perverse and sardonic to ever attain consistent radio play. Coincidentally, I first heard AMM (Rowe, Prevost and Tilbury) way back in the mid 80s....that was well before I even had any exposure to Sylvian's music (thanks to NPR in '88).
So from my personal experience, I have found that if one only listens to music that appeals to them on a superficial level, then one misses out on a lot of intriguing music. Music doesn't only have to be positive and beautiful in an aesthetically pleasing manner, it can effectively work well while reflecting dark, negative, disturbing, ugly emotions - it can elicit anger...it can provoke fear. It can provoke disgust. It can do all of this and still work effectively as art. Sylvian is well aware of the vast amount of negativity in the world and his music sometimes mirrors that negativity.
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Re: September

Postby Chad on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:44 pm

"If an artist whose work I previously enjoyed, does something new that I do not like, I assume the problem is with me, for not understanding it, and not the fault of the artist" -robert fripp

these guys have been making the same argument for years. failure to engage the audience is always the fault of said audience. could it be that the 'art' in question just sucks?

manafon was a complete miss. smg is actually a good track but when I listen to songs like the rabbit skinner or tgle I just want to start laughing. its like watching one of those old william shatner youtubes. all that horsepower for musicians and I swear to god it sounds like they're just tuning up in the background. Its like he had the tape rolling at the wrong times. David couldn't elicit one decent instrumental performance from the bunch. quite honestly I'm embarrassed for the guy.

theres plenty of other experimental electronic instrumental artist that got it going on. monolake, hecker, jon hopkins to name a few. whats really hard and probably the most challenging to do is mix the experimental & pop. the new volcano choir record is a good example of this...
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Re: September

Postby missouriman on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:18 pm

Give it a rest, Chad. I am not sure what you want us to say. You not liking Manafon doesn't mean David is finished creatively. It means you don't like Manafon.

I liked Manafon. Not all of it, but enough of it. I skip certain tracks, but I skip certain tracks by him all the time. I don't care for "Taking the Veil" or "Pulling Punches" or his version of "All Tomorrow's Parties" or "The Boy With The Gun". I didn't write him off because I didn't feel anything for these tracks.

Who can listen to an lp and hand on heart say they love every single song?
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Re: September

Postby dizrythmia on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:38 am

missouriman wrote:Who can listen to an lp and hand on heart say they love every single song?

thank you. there are some perfect albums out there for sure, but even thinking of japan's and david's stuff, there's usually just that one song that i could do without.

not liking someone's latest album doesn't have anything to do with the listener, in that it's a problem they need to get over. music to me is like any other kind of art, you either get it or you don't. sometimes an album or a song needs to grow on you, but if you've listened to something 20 times and still hate it, chances are you probably just don't like it. music is purely subjective so there's no right or wrong in terms of liking it. those who like david's latest stuff are no better or worse than those who don't. it's anyone who listens to something with prejudice that's wrong, for going into a listening experience automatically assuming something's going to be crap.
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Re: September

Postby Chad on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:08 am

hey missouri,

my last post was in response to bahts entry. while I agree with what he says, experimental like any other form music, is not always good and in some cases really bad. when that happens why encourage and support it?

and to dizzy point, about preconceived ideas and notions. thats the danger with putting out consecutive dogs. who falls for the flaming bag of dog sh*t trick more then once? :?
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Re: September

Postby dizrythmia on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:20 pm

Chad wrote:and to dizzy point, about preconceived ideas and notions. thats the danger with putting out consecutive dogs. who falls for the flaming bag of dog sh*t trick more then once? :?

i don't know, i know fans of other artists who disliked more than one consecutive album, yet continued to buy them in the hopes that the next one would be better. there's something to be said for either argument, either no longer buying the albums or continuing to show support. usually i've found the tide does change. i've liked an artist or two where they've put out a couple crap albums and eventually they do finish whatever thing they did that i hated.

i don't think i've ever seen someone post so passionately about things they hate, though.
no amount of fire or freshness can challenge what a man will store up in his ghostly heart.
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Re: September

Postby Chad on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:32 pm

you're the one on the experimental improv bandwagon. I was just pointing out that experiments often fail. improv seems to be the elephants graveyard for artists running out of things to say or just to lazy to put in the time. in most cases its not progress but regress. any dick with a keyboard or a kitchen appliance rigged guitar can create this stuff. I expect a lot more from established artists, especially David.

I dont speak for the few of you still left but for the masses that have moved on. be honest you guys... how often do you really listen to this stuff? honestly?

I agree with diz, usually the tide does change for the better. I can hope anyways...
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Re: September

Postby ob8 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:39 pm

missouriman wrote:Give it a rest, Chad. I am not sure what you want us to say. You not liking Manafon doesn't mean David is finished creatively. It means you don't like Manafon.

I liked Manafon. Not all of it, but enough of it. I skip certain tracks, but I skip certain tracks by him all the time. I don't care for "Taking the Veil" or "Pulling Punches" or his version of "All Tomorrow's Parties" or "The Boy With The Gun". I didn't write him off because I didn't feel anything for these tracks.

Who can listen to an lp and hand on heart say they love every single song?



Spot on MM.

I don't like every track either though I must say there are a quite a few albums that are pure bliss from start to finish. And I am not talking albums that David has been involved with :o
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Re: September

Postby inkinthewell on Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:24 pm

I think that by now we have all understood Chad's feelings about David Sylvian's last ten/fifteen years of music.
What I don't get is why he has to insist on pointing out that who likes it is an idiot (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth Chad, but I'm guessing you might feel that whoever falls for the flaming bag of dog sh*t more than once must not be a genius). After all, there are masochists in the world, you know. We just love to suffer. Is that wrong, maybe?
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - JL 1940-1980
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Re: September

Postby baht habit on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:16 am

Chad wrote:I dont speak for the few of you still left but for the masses that have moved on. be honest you guys... how often do you really listen to this stuff? honestly?


Chad,
Was your inquiry asked as a rhetorical question? Or are you really interested in being made aware of how often "this stuff" is actually listened to by the "few" of us "still left"?

Also, I'm quite surprised that you offered absolutely no response to inkinthewell's sincere posting above....((((crickets))) Considering that you felt it was so necessary to comment with some sort of a response to my post - which was merely an example of personal experience which I offered in response to depeon's query - I would have expected to you to jump at the opportunity to retort when commented on by name. Yet,....(((crickets)))
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Re: September

Postby Chad on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:37 am

sorry baht... was there a question there? I couldn't really tell. it seems more like a comment than a question. do I think you guys are idiots? of course not. to each his own I guess. but please allow me that same consideration.

I just hope and would like to think David will get tired of playing in empty halls and making records that nobody listens to. nine horse is one of the best projects he's ever been involved in, and it wasn't that long ago. IMO its time for him to get focused again. improv is for aging no-gig session players not songwriters. :D
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Re: September

Postby baht habit on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:50 am

Chad wrote:sorry baht... was there a question there? I couldn't really tell. it seems more like a comment than a question. do I think you guys are idiots? of course not. to each his own I guess. but please allow me that same consideration.


Your opinions are always respected here. No rational person should have any problem at all when you state that you do or do not enjoy what is being presented.
But it often appears - and I am obviously not the only person detecting this - that you cannot give your opinion without including some subversive implication that those with tastes, preferences and opinions contrary to yours are either being duped or lack the intellect to come to conclusions similar to your own. That, as well as disparaging the musical artist for following a directional path that does not appeal to you, seems to be your modus operandi - your only reason for even joining this board. For the remaining days that this forum exists, I truly hope you will come to prove this observation as an incorrect assumption on my part.
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