Backs, lies and nostalgia

From Brilliant Trees through Died In The Wool...

Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby Blemished on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:20 am

I've been surprised at the level of irritation shown towards David and the tour postponement on some other lists in particular. There seems to be a (disputed) suspicion that tickets weren't selling and that the injury is being used to mask the scaling down of what otherwise would have been a loss-making tour. It's an interesting debate, although if I were David I'd be rather offended. I do think some of the griping has a subtext: stop-making atonal rubbish, go back to nice ballads and then your gigs will sell.

For me this begs two questions:

1. Are Sylvian fans especially critical or is this par for the course for a 'devoted' following? I don't follow anyone else's music in quite the same way, so don't know. The only parallel I can think of is Radiohead - they seem to have a similar split between those who want them to remake Creep or Paranoid Android [Forbidden Colours, Orpheus] endlessly and those who like the post Kid A [Blemish] trajectory. Their following is on a different scale though and it's hard to gauge.

2. Would some/many/most Sylvian fans prefer if he stopped recording and became a heritage act? I know I'm showing my biases in the way that's phrased but I do wonder if some people - in their heart of hearts - would prefer to hear David singing the 80s material live again every few years and to give up on new material? They might say that they'd like more new music in the vein of the 80s trilogy, but that is surely unrealistic. I can't think of any band that have been able to repeat past glories by choice, from the Beatles on. Evolution or nostalgia seems the only choice. Paul McCartney anyone?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic...well, a bit maybe. Am curious as to what people's views are.
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby humanracer on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:56 pm

People are just very cynical now. When Depeche Mode canceled dates in their last tour, many suspected Dave Gahan had turned back to drugs again. Turned out he had cancer. Likewise Duran Duran's recent cancellations (due to Simon Lebon's voice problem) were blamed on poor ticket sales. However the group returned and almost sold out the 02 arena in London. I think David is honest enough to cancel or move the venue if ticket sales are poor. He has been upfront in the past about how the tours barely make him much money.
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby Bern on Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:19 pm

I've always found Sylvian honest and self deprecating when being interviewed,i find it staggering people would doubt his credibility, I believe if a "live" audience no longer existed for him he would be quite happy to draw a line under touring.

As for his early work, I love the Brilliant Trees to Secrets of the Beehive period but he can't showcase 34 years of material in one live show, I leave it up to him to entertain me and I buy a ticket simply on that basis.

I have yet to be disappointed
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby baht habit on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:25 pm

Since I don't peruse such sites so firmly entrenched in nostalgia, I wasn't aware of the backlash or the baseless rumor mongering...that is, until Simonp informed me of it a few days ago.

So I mentioned it in a correspondence with Chris Dahlen and received this reply:
"As for the tour - I'm not an official spokesman so don't take this as an "on the record" statement, but I can tell you that his back injury is a real thing. They were all set to go, but it sounds like this presented a problem they could not work around. Hence why they're delaying the tour but not cancelling it altogether."

It makes sense to me, as Sylvian himself made it quite obvious in his initial official statement that he harbored no illusions regarding ticket sales. Subsequently, and ironically enough, from reading the second statement dealing with the postponement, it appears as if Sylvian was actually pleasantly surprised that the sales have been as abundant as they have been.

So to put it bluntly, these disgruntled types are talkingouttatheirasses. If they came up with some rumor about a delay due to the band perhaps needing more time to get their stuff together and gel better as a unit so that the performances are of a high standard, then that maybe would have held more credibility rather than any concern for commercial sales -- but since they seem to be of the ilk who hold some perception that commercial sales equal quality, they focus on that alone. One could possibly conclude that these sorts amongst the fan base have been far out of touch with Sylvian's actual mindset for a very long time.
The tour is going to happen eventually, and they will be just as negative then as well. And I hope someone is kind enough to share their negative comments with us on this site, so we all may enjoy their grumbling as well. :twisted:
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby karnsculpture on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:14 pm

Simply, the people who made those statements were mistaken, and they were challenged as the original poster stated; the good news is that rescheduled dates are starting to be announced - 03.10.2012 / köln - theater am tanzbrunnen
16.10.2012 / stuttgart - theaterhaus
17.10.2012 / berlin - universität der künste
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby inkinthewell on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:33 pm

Blemished wrote:Evolution or nostalgia seems the only choice.


There's another choice, a bit more risky: just be yourself.
From my point of view, David Sylvian manages to do just that, regardless of criticism and of what his "fans" may or may not like. He's following his route, and that's one of the reasons I love and respect him.

P.S. You mentioned Paul McCartney, rather negatively from what I could understand. Well, he, like David, is a man I love and respect, and who has never done anything but what he wanted to do. I saw him live last november, and there was absolutely nothing nostalgic about his performance. He can choose great songs to rock his audience with from a 50 year long career, but, unlike DS, he still enjoys doing his older stuff. I can see nothing wrong with that.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - JL 1940-1980
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby natsume on Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:15 am

inkinthewell wrote:
Blemished wrote:Evolution or nostalgia seems the only choice.


There's another choice, a bit more risky: just be yourself.
From my point of view, David Sylvian manages to do just that, regardless of criticism and of what his "fans" may or may not like. He's following his route, and that's one of the reasons I love and respect him.

P.S. You mentioned Paul McCartney, rather negatively from what I could understand. Well, he, like David, is a man I love and respect, and who has never done anything but what he wanted to do. I saw him live last november, and there was absolutely nothing nostalgic about his performance. He can choose great songs to rock his audience with from a 50 year long career, but, unlike DS, he still enjoys doing his older stuff. I can see nothing wrong with that.



++
If one wants to revisit their old stuff, and can do it with energy and life, then OK. Totally agree about McCartney.
If one doesn't, so be it. If we admire the artist, let's see what they are up to, today.
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby Blemished on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:01 pm

Very fair points about McCartney. I mentioned him as he is one of the all-time great pop musicians - but who seems to have lost his ability to add anything new and seems to have become a nostalgia act (albeit, probably the greatest nostalgia act).

But your comments made me think about whether it is fair to call it nostalgia. Is hearing him sing 'Let it be' an act of nostalgia - a homage to his greatest era - or is it just hearing a timeless song sung by the original artist? Is hearing Mahler's 9th symphony about nostalgia, or just about great, timeless music? So, I admit, it is probably wrong to label McCartney as a nostalgia act. Sorry Macca!

I guess the frustration comes with Sylvian fans who primarily want to hear his older stuff and not the newer, more experimental material. I love much of the older material too, but understand how he feels estranged from it. I suppose it is good to hear whatever he wants to play, as long as his heart is in it.

But I think the reason Sylvian is still innovating is because he refuses to rest on his laurels. He never repeats himself and he remains on the cutting edge of music. Personally, I wouldn't mind if he never toured again or never sang older stuff (we have the albums after all) as long as he carries on creating great new material.
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby Haldeman Gracie on Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:52 am

It's perhaps unfortunate that rumours about the tour being in trouble were spreading (even around here) before its sudden cancellation. Such things can only lead to specualtion that all is not as it seems - totally understandable. If you can't be cynical about this, then when can you be?

But added to this is David's perceived honesty and integrity. In short, he doesn't seem the type to invent an injury.

Maybe it was both... David playing hopscotch on the loft ladders knowing fine well that a single slip will confine him to rest but save him $350,000. And lo, down he went.
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby tulipmania on Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:12 pm

I empathise with DS. I got a back injury over the Christmas period after years of having no back problems. Despite buying a 2 grand mattress I am still in pain. Its from chopping wood.
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby soundofwaves on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:48 pm

so another artist i have always loved (although many may struggle to see how my taste extends to both him and Sylvian) is Paul Weller.

he obviously turned his back on The Jam at their peak in 1982 (ring any bells?) and during The Style Council years, he steadfastly refused to play any Jam songs

Since his solo career, he has slightly relaxed his rule and plays acoustic or sparser versions of old Jam songs at his gigs. it is a breath of fresh air to see him so relaxed and able to take pride in his back catalogue. and to my mind, Sylvian does a similar thing, reworking a handful of old tunes for each tour. It's part of of the fun of it guessing which ones he'll rework this time. Neither has become a heritage act but neither has forsaken their past either.

Also, I quite like laughing at the old meatheads (and I'm 41 myself) who only really know The Jam stuff and turn up at the gigs looking non-plussed when Weller shuns Going Underground and instead plays a 3-piece piano and orchestral suite as he did last tour. All power to him. He's moved on and people can either go with that... or not. It's a similar story with Sylvian.

As I've said elsewhere on this site, I prefer Sylvian's richer, warmer material - I take Snow Borne Sorrow over Blemished any day - but I can appreciate that Sylvian wants to progress and develop, and create a live set that works as a whole. To my mind, he and Paul Weller successfully prove that you can play some of your old songs (especially if you rework it to fit in with today's material) without being merely a heritage act
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Re: Backs, lies and nostalgia

Postby Blemished on Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:22 pm

soundofwaves wrote:so another artist i have always loved (although many may struggle to see how my taste extends to both him and Sylvian) is Paul Weller.


Yes - a very interesting parallel there. He's definitely someone who couldn't be accused of trading excessively on his past in the Jam. I loved the Jam and have struggled to get too excited about Weller's solo material, but do remember the shock of the shift he made with the Style Council. He does seem to disprove my theory!

Morrissey could be another one. He forged a career beyond the Smiths but does revisit the band material too.

I guess the difference with David is that he has continued to push boundaries in the way those two don't. Morrissey just keeps retreading the same musical ground - although he is more focused on lyrics and tunes rather than being musically interesting. His fans seem happy enough. Weller seemed to be on the retro path the last time I noticed (Wild Wood) but I don't know enough to comment, nor how the old Jamheads take it.

I imagine some Sylvian fans - the ones who seem to be always having a pop at him on the Pioneers list - would prefer him to be like Morrissey. Remaking the same kind of song (SOTB etc) in endless ways. Nothing wrong with that in a way, although I think [IMHO] that it does sort of miss the point of what David has always been about. Breaking new sonic ground; finding new means of expression etc.
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