Trauma Therapy may be necessary....

[BobbyVey]

I dont want to get into the big argument here but i have to agree that and artist should remain as an artist
with his own free spirit.
when someone is a painter no one says anything when the style changes the painting is either purchased or not...
i find it a shame that muscians dont have this freedom without a large amount of critic........

I don't think that any painter or artist of any kind is completely free from critics' and public audience's judgement. The artist who is not under that kind of pressure, even subconsciously, is partly lost for his art. David is not an exception.
I see 'Manafon' as a random flyout and I'm certain that he actually thought at that time 'yeah, that's finally it, I've made it properly for once...' but I also bet he's not so pleased with it right now, will be even less in the future.
Also I can't imagine him going this direction much further than he already went, I couldn't imagine how it would sound at all. He's still capable to surprise anyone, even his oldest fans. Looking forward to it already!

btw neonico, ur absolutely right, u are beautiful, but somehow I don't think u can be objective enough to judge David as an artist, considering u know him personally (or just met him?)

[natsume]

I think its clear from this bulletin board that a lot of longstanding fans have been patient, open-minded

I think what baht is highlighting here is exactly the opposite.

How does one qualify to be the arbiter of what constitutes an "artistic mistake"?

I have only listened to Manafon twice, it is not fitting in with my current mood. I still see great value in it, as I am and will continue to be a supporter of Sylvian's music. I honestly don't see that it is that dramatic of a departure for him, if one follows the line of his most experimental (often instrumental) music over the past 25 years, music I have not always fully embraced, but appreciate as essential components of his overall vision. Without exploring the breadth of that vision, I don't think the more mainstream sounding music that many feel he should be making would be anywhere near as interesting as it is.

[Foales Arishes]

How does one qualify to be the arbiter of what constitutes an "artistic mistake"?

You can't, and it’s insulting for anyone to describe this or any work in such a way. And as for describing Manafon as a "random flyout"... well, what a load of tosh, there is nothing random about it, this work has a very clear lineage and is, perhaps, more of a culmination, a pulling together of all the pieces. What he does next is something I would not wish to guess at, I know what I would like to hear, but that is irrelevant.

I’ve been working professionally in the artistic sphere for over ten years, primarily as a visual artist and more recently with sound and music. Over those years I have gone through radical changes, which has caused consternation with those who bought and collect my work, and though I feel some sympathy I make no apology. There are ways of working that I can never see myself returning to…at this point in time I reject them completely, and you have to do so to maintain creative impetus.

[BobbyVey]

You can't, and it’s insulting for anyone to describe this or any work in such a way. And as for describing Manafon as a "random flyout"... well, what a load of tosh, there is nothing random about it, this work has a very clear lineage and is, perhaps, more of a culmination, a pulling together of all the pieces. What he does next is something I would not wish to guess at, I know what I would like to hear, but that is irrelevant.

[/quote][/quote]
I don't think u understood what I meant, but I can't find ur comment legitimate anyway, regardless 'U’ve been working professionally in the artistic sphere for over ten years' which u think makes u more relevant than me (I've been working professionally in architecture sphere for over than 15 years).
Of course Manafon is, from one perspective, a logical follow up to his work on 'Blamish', but still find it rather random, considering all the thing he have done meanwhile. 'Culmination/pulling together all the pieces' sounds like a clishe very much to me I'm afraid, not to mention 'tosh' or whatever. That's what I would expect to hear from David in some interview, but not here.

[Foales Arishes]

which u think makes u more relevant than me

No, the second paragraph was not directed at you, but was to reflect upon some of the earlier comments regarding comparisons with the visual arts and music. It was purely to relate my own experience of change and the reaction to it, which ranges from disappointment to total dismissal.

Culmination/pulling together all the pieces' sounds like a clishe very much to me I'm afraid

It’s just how I see it. This album is but one strand of his music, and its roots can be traced back many-many years, therefore it (Manafon) can hardly been seen as some random event.

[missouriman]

I wonder why some of us are so pissed off at a musician when there are far more important things going on out there. Cancer, child/animal abuse, terrorism and society breaking down for a few. So many words on Manafon and what is it proving? That some can spell? That some of us like to talk? I like to listen to Mananfon. Five day in a row now and it sounds more interesting and vital with every play. I like the music/lyrics and vocals. I like what it does to me and it elevates my mood. I like the people here on this forum, but we have got to stop the preaching to the crowd. I see few willing to cry uncle and accept anything but their own point of view. Stop the madness or you are all off the bloody Christmas card list!

[BobbyVey]

I wonder why some of us are so pissed off at a musician when there are far more important things going on out there. Cancer, child/animal abuse, terrorism and society breaking down for a few. So many words on Manafon and what is it proving? That some can spell? That some of us like to talk?

Well, this is the forum about Sylvian/Japan work, not about cancer, child/animal abuse, terrorism and society breaking down. More precisely, this thread is about 'Manafon' and the ways for one to except it or reject it, not about these really important things u mentioned. This needs to be a social thing, like any fan club should be. We are not activists here, well someone maybe is, but he's on coffee break now....

[missouriman]

I wonder why some of us are so pissed off at a musician when there are far more important things going on out there. Cancer, child/animal abuse, terrorism and society breaking down for a few. So many words on Manafon and what is it proving? That some can spell? That some of us like to talk?

Well, this is the forum about Sylvian/Japan work, not about cancer, child/animal abuse, terrorism and society breaking down. More precisely, this thread is about 'Manafon' and the ways for one to except it or reject it, not about these really important things u mentioned. This needs to be a social thing, like any fan club should be. We are not activists here, well someone maybe is, but he's on coffee break now....

I don't take coffee breaks cos it gives me gas! If some of these remarks are from fans then I would hate to read stuff from people who really don't like him.

[barryinstockholm]

I'm also a long time Sylvian fan...since 82 or so. And I have everything he's done since then.

But quite honestly I don't like Manafon. And I did not like the Noashima installation music either.

I am hopeful David will do something next that I will love. It's depressing to think otherwise.

[tracycowell]

i have loved sylvian since 1981 too, and there are songs that i just dont like. I dont understand these people who wont criticise him even if the material is obviously pants. Most of his stuff i LOVE and always will, he is to me the most talented musician ever. Having said that what was he thinking with Manafon? He is capable of such beauty but Manafon is such a big, big disappointment to alot of fans. Fans should be able to express their dislike without fear of being castrated. Fair enough if he wants to make music like manafon its up to him, but i think its caused great disappointment amongst fans, we've all waited so long and i for one was hoping for something more easy on the ear. I have listened to it only a few times, which is unheard of for me where David is concerned. If you are reading our comments David please listen to us just a little. We want to here your beautiful voice again. Im not living in the past, i know artists evolve but this was a step too far for most of us.

[tracycowell]

Just to add, neonico please don't hate me!!.... I know you love manafon.

[baht habit]

i have loved sylvian since 1981 too, and there are songs that i just dont like. I dont understand these people who wont criticise him even if the material is obviously pants. Most of his stuff i LOVE and always will, he is to me the most talented musician ever. Having said that what was he thinking with Manafon? He is capable of such beauty but Manafon is such a big, big disappointment to alot of fans. Fans should be able to express their dislike without fear of being castrated. Fair enough if he wants to make music like manafon its up to him, but i think its caused great disappointment amongst fans, we've all waited so long and i for one was hoping for something more easy on the ear. I have listened to it only a few times, which is unheard of for me where David is concerned. If you are reading our comments David please listen to us just a little. We want to here your beautiful voice again. Im not living in the past, i know artists evolve but this was a step too far for most of us.

There are songs that I do not prefer either, as should logically be the case with anyone who listens so much to one single musician - especially an artist who likes to experiment and challenge himself and the listener.
But correct me if I am wrong, when you write that 'people won't criticize him...', you seem to be inferring that since you don't like Manafon, no one else should find it enjoyable. If I read your words wrong, then I apologize. If you are implying exactly that, then unfortunately, you fit right in with the highlighted posts in this thread.
Also, just to be completely clear as possible, I would never intend for anyone to be fearful of expressing their dislike for Manafon, which is obviously just as legitimate as anyone who does happen to like it. It is just that I distinctly began this thread to show the seemingly abundance of irrational >>>anger<<< towards Sylvian for this daring experiment with music created by artists who work within the Electro Acoustic Improvisational field...And to highlight those who think that their opinion should be universally held by all fans...And to point out those who express their dissatisfaction directly to Sylvian - though the chances are slim that he would ever be in a position to read them...And to put a spotlight on those who willingly or unwittingly admit that they are stuck on Sylvian's past sounds and hate to see him go in other directions.

[jon abbey]

i know artists evolve but this was a step too far for most of us.

it wasn't far enough for most of the people I've talked to about it.

[tracycowell]

Im certainly not inferring that since I don't like Manafon no one else should, quite the opposite. I know there are fans that love it and love the direction his music is going . However I also know a lot of people who have found it difficult and actually have said they "hate it". For some reason people, in my experience, (as a long time sylvian fan) do become very protective of his work and yes angry when you infer you may not like something. I don't like manafon but you cant like everything an artist puts out. As for my asking sylvian to listen to his fans,that was in jest, as i do not think that he really thinks of his fans when musical inspiration comes to him. (again my personal opinion).At the end of the day you either like it or you dont.Perhaps I'm one of those stuck in the past, but theres nothing wrong with that, I dont want him to continue in this Manafon direction....You can't please everybody all of the time. However I do have it on good authority that he does frequent this forum!

[BobbyVey]

Tracy, I second that emotion completely!