Sylvian as lyricist/poet

From Brilliant Trees through Died In The Wool...

Postby girl about town on Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:53 pm

Melaszka wrote:Thanks for the Blake stuff, girlabouttown - it's really interesting. I want to think about the paralells a bit more.

Apologies for my pre-menstrual moment earlier and thanks for the reassurance, untitled etc.


Glad the Blake stuff was interesting to you.

As for the other comment, I am feeling empathy for you (between eating chocolate and crying :lol: :lol: :lol:). Have as much reassurance as you need I think your posts are great!!! Chin up kiddo.

Hey I learned how to use the quote!


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Postby tallulahtaurus on Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:03 pm

Orpheus - " Orpheus keeps to his promise and stays be my side..." (or something similar I am writing lyrics from memory here folks), even though this was supposed to be written about his cat at the time, I always feel like he was talking about his relationships with us, the listeners.


Ah it was about his cat? I always thought it was some reference to the Orpheus in Greek mythology because he was a musician and a poet. I always thought of it like Orpheus is a name he has assigned to the musical muse guiding him...and pulling him on through life...LOL yet another example of why interpretation is at best an imperfect science. I mean I like ellynsylvian's interpretation too I don't see why we can't have them all...

I've meant to see Nightporter for aaages - (even before I had ever heard of David Sylvian and Japan even) and have never got around to it. Which is something I should recitify.
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Postby Astronaut on Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:45 pm

Meyrav
Thanks for posting the Nightporter synopsis, Astronaut!! I shall watch this movie immediately.
Anortherncod
1. Thanks astronaut and girl about town for your input on William Blake - v. interesting.
Girlabouttown
I am sure Astronaut can give you a far more in depth reply. Astronaut, I too would be very interested in your comments as anything to do with Blake is of interest to me (another parallel to DS!!!)
Thanks everyone! Glad to have been of help in illuminating Nightporter (the film + possibly song) for you, altho as someone mentioned previously interpretation isn't an exact science!
Also, the film The Nightporter, talk about Stockholm Syndrome. Ain't Mr S a saucepot for liking this!!
:wink: Ha-Ha! Aint that the truth!
Regarding William Blake, since there appears to be quite a few people out there who are interested in this subject, rather than sending out individual PM's should I just post my reply here (and try to keep it as brief as possible? Or would you all rather I start a new thread so it doesnt interfere with this discussion? What do you think?
BTW: Girl about town
However, the point I was making was that both DS and Blake use spiritual experience and references in their works. Also that they are both multi-talented. Who's not to say that some kind of divine intervention is at play as they both have God given talents Their creations are both beautiful and touch the human soul.
Amen to that! GREAT to meet another Blake fan! Your reply was spot on, however there is at least one other similarity between Blake and David that you didn't mention so I'll bring that up in my reply. :-D
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Postby Astronaut on Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:51 pm

YIPEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I've just noticed Steve has appeared above my avatar!!!! :smt049 :smt060 :smt049 It's official: I'm a fanatic! :lol: :lol: :lol: (Think I'll change my avatar now to celebrate!)
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Postby Astronaut on Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:59 pm

Hello again! OK William Blake stuff ready. It's 1 page of normal A4 paper in total, so is that too much to post here? :? :? :?
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Postby anortherncod on Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:06 am

Um... is this something a moderator should reply to or can we agree amongst ourselves?

Just erring on the side of caution because of some stuff that has happened elsewhere recently... but it's fine by me.

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Postby Melaszka on Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:21 am

It's fine by me, too. I'm assuming that in the unlikely event of anyone finding it irrelevant or uninteresting, they can just not read it.
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Postby Astronaut on Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:16 pm

William Blake: 1757-1827 London.
Was a working class engraver and radical who very early on in his life turned against the so called “Age of Reason” (as the mid 18th Century had become known) in favour of the ‘vision’ which he described as “Determinate and Perfect”. Blake loathed the scientific, logical explanations of the universe put forward by Newton, which far from giving him reassurance that everything was logical in the world, or as Voltaire put it in his own scathing critique of contemporary society, “All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds”; had the opposite effect: it made Blake despair. For Blake reason was far outweighed by the imagination, by visions. To convey his visions to the world he sought a new form of artistic expression which led him to explore new pictorial techniques. In all his works the traditional relationship between picture and text was abandoned, and a symbolic unity of word and image was created which would not be accepted until many decades after his death. (Why does this always seem to happen? Van Gogh is another great example of this).

Throughout the 1790’s Blake was a radical (politically as well as artistically). His Songs of Innocence (1789) and Songs of Experience (1794) superimpose an age of innocence over a world full of corrupt laws and social inequalities where human beings are shamelessly exploited by those in power (nothing changes much does it?) This is the point which Girlabouttown didn’t mention – DS lyrics have become increasingly politicized and focus more on the external world, especially on the 9 Horses material, where he uses his artistic and creative abilities to voice his concerns over the Bush administration and the ‘Age of Terror’ we appear to be living in at the moment. Blakes’ two great epics, Milton (1810) and Jerusalem (1820) look toward the revival of the ancient religion of the Druids. He believed that somehow human beings must keep the flame of liberty alive within themselves. Like several other Romantic poets of the time the social and political revolution that swirled around him became internalized. In Auguries of Innocence he wrote:

To see a world in a grain of sand
And Heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

By then Blake was living in isolation and he received very few visitors preferring the company of his wife and few select and very loyal friends (rather like DS living in his New Hampshire mountainside ashram?) He was generally looked upon as a crank. Now he is widely regarded as a genius who had the ability to write with a blinding visionary directness which is still disturbing and thought provoking.

So, Blake was controversial because: 1. He didn’t conform to the cold logical scientific theories of the ‘Age of Reason’. 2. He didn’t follow an orthodox religion which in his time and place would have been the Church of England. 3. He had visions which he believed in and he wasn’t afraid to tell people about them. 4. He devised a new method of incorporating text and image which was widely criticized at the time, but universally adopted after his death. 5. He held radical political beliefs (as Girlabouttown has already covered). 6. He was actually a very decent man with a kind heart and a soul a wide as the skies … and an absolute genius! :-D Hope this is OK with everyone I'm sure Silver Moon or MoodyB will remove it if it's not ....
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Postby anortherncod on Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:47 pm

Thanks Astronaut. This really is interesting. I hope other people find it so as well. I often think that even if references don't lead to a greater knowledge of what lyrics might be about, they broaden your horizons anyway, just like listening to the music your favourite musicians listen to.

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Postby Astronaut on Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:00 pm

Yes I agree. Also, as you say even if they don't lead to a greater understanding of DS' actual lyrics, they do make his influences much clearer (I think so anyway). I believe it also puts DS' work in context. I mean, if you want to look at life, history, or in this case literature, it puts David's work at the current end of a long line of poets, artists and visionaries who have all inspired or influenced each other and the society in which they lived. In many cases such as Blake his work is more influential now 200 years after his death than it was in his lifetime. At least David has the satisfaction of knowing that his work is greatly appreciated in his own lifetime and I hope it will continue to be so for the next 200 years!
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Postby Waves on Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:02 am

Thanks Astronaut for broadening my horizon any way :smt023
I did not skip this post, its interesting and I will remember that name and look out for further more myself.
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Postby Melaszka on Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:13 am

Thanks, Astronaut. I knew very little about Blake and this was really interesting.

It also strikes me that the blurred divisions between different art forms is something that very much applies to DS, too.
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Postby Astronaut on Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:50 pm

You're all more than welcome! I'm just pleased I haven't alienated too many people! I do have a tendency to go on a bit! Sorry! Melaszka
It also strikes me that the blurred divisions between different art forms is something that very much applies to DS, too.

Absolutely! It's also something that was explored by Jean Cocteau who excelled in so many different art forms.
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Postby Sylvian's Beard on Mon May 05, 2008 4:11 pm

Could someone please refresh my memory about the connection between Ink in the Well, and the phrase "Age of Reason.." it was in the Last Romantic, and I'm trying to explain David Sylvian and his poetic side to a friend who is quite the poet.
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Postby anortherncod on Mon May 05, 2008 4:24 pm

Well...

It COULD be to do with the novel by Jean-Paul Sartre of the same name - DS pays homage to Sartre all over the place, which led to me reading another of his novels, Nausea, when I was 14 or so...

or...

It COULD be a reference to late 17th century philosophy which is also called the Age of Reason!

My money's on Sartre, but I could be wrong (I just slipped away from home, etc!).

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