Manafon - the "keeper"? Or which other cd?

[Hawk]

Blemish for me too but Manafon is growing into something special. Funny because I probably listen to his other albums more...

Edit: Damn I'm at the top of the page again.

Edit 2: HAHAHA gosh golly jee whiz!

[Astronaut]

I am keeping ALL my Sylvian cds and if any of ya try to take them off of me then I will kick ya booty!

Well said Missouriman!!!!

[Dreadbear]

I´ll keep almost all my Sylvian cd´s...except for Manafon. It really bores me! Did I hear someone say "The emperors new clothes"?

/Dreadbear

[baht habit]

I´ll keep almost all my Sylvian cd´s...except for Manafon. It really bores me! Did I hear someone say "The emperors new clothes"?

/Dreadbear

I suppose you do realize quite well that when you make the pronouncement "The emperors new clothes", you are not only ridiculing the artist and musicians who were involved, but also those of us listeners who actually are interested in and entertained by the content on Manafon. It is one thing to reasonably proclaim that certain music 'bores' you, since obviously not all music is tailor made for everyone. But then to apparently feel so utterly correct in one's opinion as to disparage those who it does appeal to seems highly unneccessary.
Though I guess that I shouldn't be all that surprised or taken aback by such a remark, since we keep learning time and time again how a fairly large portion of Sylvian's fans tend to inflate the worth of their personal musical tastes and biases to the degree where they essentially feel entitled to belittle anything which may possibly take an approach which falls outside of their comfort zone.

[Dreadbear]

Hahaha! That one was predictable, wasn´t it? Manafon, and to some David´s work in general, is really a minefield and that´s how good art should work i suppose! I didn´t wan´t to insult anyone here. I think some people on this forum makes it hard to participate in the ongoing discussions. As fast as someone have something negative about our beloved David people like you always takes it to a personal level....or do we have the man himself working under alias here? I don´t think so;-) I think it´s sad...really and unnecessary in extreme!

Please don´t kill the good atmosphere on this forum.

/Dreadbear

[Astronaut]

Hahaha! That one was predictable, wasn´t it? Manafon, and to some David´s work in general, is really a minefield and that´s how good art should work i suppose! I didn´t wan´t to insult anyone here. I think some people on this forum makes it hard to participate in the ongoing discussions. As fast as someone have something negative about our beloved David people like you always takes it to a personal level....or do we have the man himself working under alias here? I don´t think so;-) I think it´s sad...really and unnecessary in extreme!

Please don´t kill the good atmosphere on this forum.

/Dreadbear

I agree with both of you. Some very valid points raised here. Firstly I agree with Dreadbear that good art/music should inspire debate and discussion. Manafon has certainly done that. Secondly I agree with Bhat that disparaging anothers opinion is highly unnecessary. However, I'd like to point out that becoming defensive and not listening to anothers opinion is also highly unnecessary and IMHO undesirable if we want the discussions to continue.

Remember there is no right or wrong in this debate. You either like it or you do not. It is what it is.

[baht habit]

...

[baht habit]

Hahaha! That one was predictable, wasn´t it? Manafon, and to some David´s work in general, is really a minefield and that´s how good art should work i suppose! I didn´t wan´t to insult anyone here. I think some people on this forum makes it hard to participate in the ongoing discussions. As fast as someone have something negative about our beloved David people like you always takes it to a personal level....or do we have the man himself working under alias here? I don´t think so;-) I think it´s sad...really and unnecessary in extreme!

Please don´t kill the good atmosphere on this forum.

/Dreadbear

I agree with both of you. Some very valid points raised here. Firstly I agree with Dreadbear that good art/music should inspire debate and discussion. Manafon has certainly done that. Secondly I agree with Bhat that disparaging anothers opinion is highly unnecessary. However, I'd like to point out that becoming defensive and not listening to anothers opinion is also highly unnecessary and IMHO undesirable if we want the discussions to continue.

Remember there is no right or wrong in this debate. You either like it or you do not. It is what it is.

That is what it is. Please be sure that I am not attempting to stifle anyone from putting forth their opinions or continuing discussions. When a listener lets us know that certain music does not appeal to them or they decide that a style of music is not for them, then we should all consider that viewpoint to be extremely valid. But when a person decides to denigrate that music or the artist --- and in turn, the particular listeners who it does happen to appeal to ---- all simply because the music doesn't personally appeal to them specifically, then a red flag goes up for me. We've been made quite aware that a good deal of fans are frustrated with the results on Manafon, and such passionate frustration of any sort usually has led to snide comments or rude remarks - which not only aim at the artist and his work, but eventually will be refocused and trained upon those who enjoy and encourage the artist's direction. It really should be quite easy to put forth one's opinion without the need to belittle those of an opposing view.

And I think we all might know the story of 'the emperor's new clothes', and it wasn't just the 'emperor' who allowed himself to be taken by the scoundrels all due to the fear of seeming ignorant or incompetent. In the story, the crowd of onlookers were also susceptible to the ruse and pretended to see the clothes. And it was not until an innocent child who happened to be free of vanity and pretension alerted everyone to the truth...
And therefore I simply concluded that your 'emperor's new clothes' remark was not only derogatory towards those ( 'emperor' Sylvian & those EAI 'scoundrels' ) involved with the creation of Manafon (the invisible clothes), but as well an obvious shot at a percentage of the fanbase (the gullible crowd of onlookers) who are quite willing to have a positive outlook on the results out of fear of seeming inadequate. We have seen an ongoing narrative where listeners who enjoy Manafon have been accused of pretension by those who feel otherwise. Your snide remark appeared to have been an obvious continuation of that narrative, which creates a negative atmosphere all on its own.

[Dreadbear]

...and this time, in my opinion, the Emperor is naked!

I rest my case:-)

/Dreadbear

[Adrian]

just a quick one then. I understand that Dreadbear doesn't like Manafon. Baht does. It has nothing to do with clothes or good taste or bad or whatever. There is an album out by David Sylvian working with a lot of other artists, called Manafon. There are people that like it, and there are people that don't. The rest of it (saying that/why it's good or not) is unneccessary, as Baht's 'good' is Dreadbears 'bad' - what I'm getting at is that the only thing anyone can say is that they themselves like or don't like something. The why doesn't come into it, nor the 'it's this or that'. two cents imho.
oh, not so quick after all... sorry!

[Astronaut]

just a quick one then. I understand that Dreadbear doesn't like Manafon. Baht does. It has nothing to do with clothes or good taste or bad or whatever. There is an album out by David Sylvian working with a lot of other artists, called Manafon. There are people that like it, and there are people that don't. The rest of it (saying that/why it's good or not) is unneccessary, as Baht's 'good' is Dreadbears 'bad' - what I'm getting at is that the only thing anyone can say is that they themselves like or don't like something. The why doesn't come into it, nor the 'it's this or that'. two cents imho.
oh, not so quick after all... sorry!

Exactly! The issue of "taste" should never enter into a debate about music or art. The idea of "taste" is class-ridden and therefore, erm, distasteful!!!

BTW: for what it's worth - I really enjoy Manafon. I think it's ethereal and other-worldly. So there!

[baht habit]

just a quick one then. I understand that Dreadbear doesn't like Manafon. Baht does. It has nothing to do with clothes or good taste or bad or whatever. There is an album out by David Sylvian working with a lot of other artists, called Manafon. There are people that like it, and there are people that don't. The rest of it (saying that/why it's good or not) is unneccessary, as Baht's 'good' is Dreadbears 'bad' - what I'm getting at is that the only thing anyone can say is that they themselves like or don't like something. The why doesn't come into it, nor the 'it's this or that'. two cents imho.
oh, not so quick after all... sorry!

Exactly! The issue of "taste" should never enter into a debate about music or art. The idea of "taste" is class-ridden and therefore, erm, distasteful!!!

BTW: for what it's worth - I really enjoy Manafon. I think it's ethereal and other-worldly. So there!

Just to be clear, I agree with both Adrian and Astronaut and their point is the same I have been attempting to make. I have not been a blind defender of the contents on Manafon because I happen to feel positively regarding the music. I want to point out once again that I have come to the defense of the cd for the express purpose of maintaining that any artist who follows whatever direction they so choose should not be attacked with overblown hyperbole for his or her artistic proclivities. As listeners, we all can make our own decisions and are free to either like what we hear or not like what we hear. And I would defend both of those decisions. One could say that they are riveted by the material, another could say that they are bored by the same material- both views are equally valid.
Yet unfortunately due to dear Dreadbear's most recent remark, I feel vindicated by my initial analysis of the 'emperor's new clothes' comment. The intent was obviously meant to demean not only the musicians but those listeners who feel much differently about the challenge presented by the product. Dreadbear's position fits right in well with that segment of the fanbase who make it clear that they feel their opinions hold more weight than that of others. So what we have witnessed is Dreadbear has spoken out and made the opinion well known that Sylvian's latest endeavor lacks substance - anyone who claims to like it merely likes it out of pure pretension - and now Dreadbear rests the case. All debate should then cease now, am I correct in my reading of such an implication?

[Astronaut]

I feel vindicated by my initial analysis of the 'emperor's new clothes' comment. The intent was obviously meant to demean not only the musicians but those listeners who feel much differently about the challenge presented by the product. Dreadbear's position fits right in well with that segment of the fanbase who make it clear that they feel their opinions hold more weight than that of others. So what we have witnessed is Dreadbear has spoken out and made the opinion well known that Sylvian's latest endeavor lacks substance - anyone who claims to like it merely likes it out of pure pretension - and now Dreadbear rests the case. All debate should then cease now, am I correct in my reading of such an implication?

Bhat, I think you have possibly misinterpreted Dreadbears comment. Could it possibly be that he meant it humourously? And that humour hasn't translated well into black & white type? Something has been lost in the communication? I personally did not take the "Emperors New Clothes" comment to mean that Dreadbear disrespects the musicians involved in the Manafon sessions. To me it was a slightly throw-away comment, and certainly not one Dreadbear had invested with a great deal of thought. "All debate should now cease" ... Somehow, I don't think that will happen - just yet - Manafon is far too interesting in many different ways and will cause divisions and debate for some time to come.

[neonico]

oh i missed this discusion unfortunately the same heated manafon debate appeared on japanpioneers group

and now the group is no more or not in the form that it was the moderator had enough which i found very sad....

it would be terrible that all forums would close because of one new cd let us all be peaceful and see what

davids new project brings....

[Astronaut]

oh i missed this discusion unfortunately the same heated manafon debate appeared on japanpioneers group

and now the group is no more or not in the form that it was the moderator had enough which i found very sad....

it would be terrible that all forums would close because of one new cd let us all be peaceful and see what

davids new project brings....

Agreed! Please keep the debate going - but lets try not to be too aggressive or defensive about it. PLEASE!