Sylvian as lyricist/poet

[Astronaut]

Girl about town:

The "left bank poet" comment was made just as Japan were starting to achieve recgnition in England in the early eighties.

I think I asked about that! Thanks for answering

I personally like to think of him as a kind of modern William Blake (without the controversy!) No matter what title he has poet, artist, creative, GOD his huge talent can not be denied.

anortherncod:

This is a little off topic, so don't shoot me, but I would be interested if girl about town could elaborate on William Blake's controversy.

I could answer this for you Natasha, but I'm not too sure this is the right place to do it as it might turn into a bit of an essay!!!!! How much do you want to know about Mr Blake? (He's one of my favourite artists/poets/visionaries)!!!!!!

[anortherncod]

Could Astronaut or girl about town please PM me about William Blake? That will save other people being, let's say, terminally bored if they are not interested.

Natasha

[Lady Arcadia]

Finally I have found a moment to write something in this thread. (I am certain I couldn't do the subject justice in a couple of lines. )

1. How much do David's lyrics add to your enjoyment and appreciation of the songs?

David's lyrics have a wonderful way of conveying emotions, or more importantly bringing my emotions to the frontline, so to speak. I tend to be more drawn to the ones I feel have a dark, sombre or lost feeling to them. Examples of this would be:

NightPorter - The emptiness of the lyrics, it is deep night reflection.
Brilliant Trees - Always makes me think of what do I do now, has everything in my life been as sucessful as I hoped, is there really any way to make it better?
Orpheus - " Orpheus keeps to his promise and stays be my side..." (or something similar I am writing lyrics from memory here folks), even though this was supposed to be written about his cat at the time, I always feel like he was talking about his relationships with us, the listeners.
Blackwater - I always had a feeling this was about death, even before I read the interview. "I long to see you again...." It captures the feelings that have always surrounded me when a loved one has passed, almost like he is speaking FOR them.

That probably sounds a bit silly, but that is how I view his lyrics. They are very important, and I am always in awe of how he can put words together like that. Probably the only other lyricist I feel the same way about is a man by the name of Paul Hewson (not Bono from U2). Paul was the lyricist and electric pianist for a Kiwi band called Dragon. He passed in 1985 of a drug overdose, but his lyrics are still heard in pubs and on most radio stations today. Like Sylvian, he used simply words to convey powerful feelings.

2. Do you think Sylvian's lyrics have enough literary merit to work as poetry, when written down and they don't have the music to support them?


Yes they do! I have always viewed lyrics as just poetry set to music. When reading poetry, I can often hear the melody of a song in my head. I would love to see a complete book of his lyrics, - although I realise this is probably not something that would happen. Could you imagine this though? The Complete Trophies? Slightly off topic, I would love to see a collection of Paul's lyrics in book form also, - and some of Simon Le Bon's cryptic ones wouldn't go a miss either!

3. What, for you, are the high and low points of David's lyric writing? Are there any lines, images, turns of phrase etc that just seem to you to be beautifully written? And are there any that seem a bit...er...less good?

Sylvian gave an interview in Oz once, and he commented that his lyrics/songs started from a saying or an emotion. It explains for me, the images that his songs create for me. I tend to be drawn, like I said earlier, to his more darker work. And although he had done many wonderful songs since his days in Japan, I am always drawn back to Nightporter. The lyrics are just perfect in my mind.

If the gentleman himself is reading this he may cringe at this point, I love the lyrics to Ghosts. It is something that I think we can all relate to at some point. For me, repeatedly.

4. I'm sure I read DS say once that the main reason he won't discuss his lyrics in interviews is because he doesn't want to impose one final meaning on the listener

Simon Le Bon states the same thing. I understand their reluctance though. Most lyricists do write from experiences and their own emotions. The emotions may produce wonderful songs, but personally they don't want the world to know about them. I respect an artists privacy in that regard.

In the end, David has produced some wonderful lyrics, (and his voice is just the perfect vehicle to deliver them too!). They provide excellent avenues for reflection, getting over difficult situations and generally help me get through this thing called life.

[Lady Arcadia]

I just realised, after I posted my last message, that many here wouldn't have a clue who Paul Hewson from Dragon was!

Not wanting to go too off topic, below are the lyrics for Paul's song Sunshine. It was Dragon's title track off their 1976 LP, and was written about the death of the band's drummer. When Paul died in 1985, it was played an awful lot, and was viewed like the eulogy that he had written for himself.

SUNSHINE

Written by:- Paul Hewson

I'm leaving Broadway
No day No night
Just colours shining
Shining down on me

I'm in the sunshine
I'm wasting time
I'm in the spotlight
I'm out of time

There's no regrets
My case is closed
Last man found his road in the end
And the last petal leaves the rose

I'm in the sunshine
I'm wasting time
I'm in the spotlight
I'm out of time

Elevator take me high
Take me, take me to the street
Spiderman is in Alcatraz
Saying some things can't be beat

I'm in the sunshine
I'm wasting time
I'm in the spotlight
I'm out of time

Ballerina come on smile at me
There's a cigarette smoking in your hand
So she said to me
Boy this world is just a stairway
How can I understand
When my world turns to sand

I'm in the sunshine
I'm wasting time
I'm in the spotlight
I'm out of time

I'm in the sunshine
I'm wasting time
I'm in the spotlight
I'm out of time

[anortherncod]

With Ellyn mentioning the lyrics to Nightporter, I wondered if anyone had seen the film of the same name? I haven't, would like to, partly for Japan-related reasons and also because it's in Italian and I'm studying that at university.

Natasha

[Melaszka]

Orpheus - " Orpheus keeps to his promise and stays be my side..." (or something similar I am writing lyrics from memory here folks), even though this was supposed to be written about his cat at the time, I always feel like he was talking about his relationships with us, the listeners.

I very much enjoyed all of your post, ellyn, but that's a particularly lovely thought.

Simon Le Bon states the same thing. I understand their reluctance though. Most lyricists do write from experiences and their own emotions. The emotions may produce wonderful songs, but personally they don't want the world to know about them. I respect an artists privacy in that regard.

I can see what you mean, but I've never had the impression that it's to protect his privacy that DS is sometimes reluctant to talk about lyrics. It's oddly often the most private songs (e.g. Blemish) that he will talk about and I'm often stunned by how personal, almost confessional some of his songs are (e.g. A History of Holes). I've always thought that it was more out of respect for the audience - wanting to give them something that could be personal to them. He's talked a lot about being pleased that his listeners often say they've found his songs have helped them, emotionally and psychologically,and I've always thought that that's one reason why he wants the words to be a bit ambiguous - so they fit more people's situations.

In the end, David has produced some wonderful lyrics, (and his voice is just the perfect vehicle to deliver them too!). They provide excellent avenues for reflection, getting over difficult situations and generally help me get through this thing called life

Amen!

Posted by anortherncod
With Ellyn mentioning the lyrics to Nightporter, I wondered if anyone had seen the film of the same name? I haven't, would like to, partly for Japan-related reasons and also because it's in Italian and I'm studying that at university.

I haven't, I'm afraid, part-time fan/general lowbrow slob that I obviously am. I also haven't read "Forbidden Colours" or "Orphee" or any existentialist, Buddhist or Hindu philosophy! I did read Grass's "The Tin Drum" (not as a deliberate fangirl thing, my flatmate gave me a copy - it's one of her favoruite books), but (brilliant though it is)it didn't seem to have any bearing on the album. If anyone has followed up philosophical/literary references in Sylvian's lyrics, I'd love to hear more about it.

BTW, I'm also interested to hear more about the Blake comparison.

[anortherncod]

I've read Tin Drum and seen the film, and also spent a lot of my teenage years reading Sartre and Cocteau because of the references to their work - but I was no closer to understanding the links.

I think DS once said Nightporter was his favourite film ever, and though I've not seen it there is a HUGE red book available on Italian cinema, which I've read, and from what I remember the theme of the film is pretty dark.

Natasha

[Astronaut]

Hello All!

I will PM you Natasha with details of the William Blake controversy. I studied his works at university, so I'll have to be careful not to start banging on about visual theories and the like! (A little education can be a dangerous thing)! BTW I HAVE seen Liliana Cavani's 1974 film: The Night Porter, several times actually as it was one of my favourite films and I had the video. I never knew til now that it was DS' fave film ever - thats cool.

Night Porter is the story of dark, obsessive love, the multiple complexities of human nature, and the nature of "evil" itself. Its about an ex-Nazi officer, Max (Dirk Bogarde) who is working as a night porter in a rather drab hotel in 1957 Vienna (hints of Ultravox anyone?). He is never seen during the day, he only 'lives' at night. One evening, a rich married lady from America, Lucia (Charlotte Rampling) checks into the hotel. Max recognises her immediately as the woman he seduced in a concentration camp. She recognises him too. There is a wonderful scene where both Max and Lucia are at the opera, but not together, he is stalking her - or is he? She senses his presence behind her, and turns to see ... no-one. The seat is empty! Fatefully or fatally, they rekindle their sado-masochistic love affiair. Their are scenes of open wounds being licked, decapitation, flagellation and so forth (the story is told in flashbacks to the concentration camp). Max's former SS colleagues begin to stalk them and there is a growing sense of terror and oppression. Max is unconcerned that his decadent behaviour with his lover will result in not only his exposure as a war criminal but his 'friends' risk prosecution too. There's a scene at the end of the film where Max is confronted by his fellow Nazis who are all still in hiding, trying to fit in with society, pretending they had never been Nazis. Max is unrepentant about his behaviour, past or present saying: "I'm very proud of what I did for my country and if I was asked to do it again, I would".

Needless to say the film was not well received at the time. It was seen as merely a gross advert for sado-masochism or at best a tedious arthouse bore. It was banned in Germany and Italy. However, if it were released today, I doubt much fuss would be made. It is most definitely NOT a pornographic film, however, it isn't easy to watch. I hope I haven't offended anyone by posting this synopsis? Apologies in advance if I have - that wasn't my intention.

[Melaszka]

Thanks for posting the Nightporter synopsis, Astronaut. It illuminated the song a lot for me.

Love the signature, BTW.

Complete non-sequitur - I may be being paranoid (I often am) and imagining it, but on this thread and a couple of others recently I've sensed a bit of negativity towards me. I'm sorry if I have inadvertently offended or irritated anyone. I know I go on a bit too much sometimes, but it's only ever because I'm really excited by someone else's post or an idea, not because I think I have anything special or brilliant to say or think I know something other people don't. I'm not being pretentious, this is just the way I always am.

[Astronaut]

anortherncod

With Ellyn mentioning the lyrics to Nightporter, I wondered if anyone had seen the film of the same name? I haven't, would like to, partly for Japan-related reasons and also because it's in Italian and I'm studying that at university

Natasha, I almost forgot to mention the film is in English. Italian director and Italian production, but English actors, English language!

[girl about town]

Sorry I have not had the chance to reply to you until now Natasha as I have been very busy. I am a great fan of William Blake and all his endeavours and works, however, (the "controversy" bit) Blake claimed at times to be inspired by angels and his dead brother whom he allegedly(?) conversed with and passed on messages from God to him. Blake as far as I am concerned was a good guy who believed in equality for all (including race and gender). I suppose it was (and is) easier for society or critics to pick up on his angelic interactions and imply that the man was a little crazy rather than applaud him for his humanitarian values and some of his Utopian ideals. Bear in mind this was a time when black people were still transported to the western world and enforced into slavery. Must have hacked a few people off! (Good!!!).

However, the point I was making was that both DS and Blake use spiritual experience and references in their works. Also that they are both multi-talented. Who's not to say that some kind of divine intervention is at play as they both have God given talents Their creations are both beautiful and touch the human soul.

Hope this makes my viewpoint a little clearer, however, I am sure Astronaut can give you a far more in depth reply. Astronaut, I too would be very interested in your comments as anything to do with Blake is of interest to me (another parallel to DS!!!)

Also, the film The Nightporter, talk about Stockholm Syndrome. Ain't Mr S a saucepot for liking this!!

Cheers to all

[untitled]

I may be being paranoid (I often am) and imagining it, but on this thread and a couple of others recently I've sensed a bit of negativity towards me. I'm sorry if I have inadvertently offended or irritated anyone. I know I go on a bit too much sometimes, but it's only ever because I'm really excited by someone else's post or an idea, not because I think I have anything special or brilliant to say or think I know something other people don't. I'm not being pretentious, this is just the way I always am.

Melaszka, I always find your posts to be very well thought out and your replies are always considerate of other people's opinions. Not pretentious or overly opinionated. Keep them coming

[anortherncod]

Phew, a lot's happened on here hasn't it?

1. Thanks astronaut and girl about town for your input on William Blake - v. interesting.

2. So The Night Porter's in English. Hmmm. Obviously I didn't read the big Italian cinema book that well. Although it was, and still is, common to use American actors in Italian films and have them overdubbed. You can also see Charlotte Rampling using her best Italian in Le Chiavi di Casa, or The Keys To The House, which is about 5 years old. But anyway, this is REALLY off-topic now...

3. Melaszka, I'm surprised you thought you've offended anyone, I can't see why... have I been reading too fast and missed something?

Natasha

[Melaszka]

Thanks for the Blake stuff, girlabouttown - it's really interesting. I want to think about the paralells a bit more.

Apologies for my pre-menstrual moment earlier and thanks for the reassurance, untitled etc.

[Meyrav]

Thanks for posting the Nightporter synopsis, Astronaut!! I shall watch this movie immediately. Especially when I was told now that it's DS favorite...mmm that man is getting weirder the more i know new things about him...
Thanks for the info-everyone!